Well, today threw me for quite a loop.
I was pleasantly surprised to see Assistant State Attorney Frank George not only appear, but precisely state the law when advocating for enforcement of Judge Strickland’s original sentence.
Nevertheless, Judge Perry seemed hesitant, did not immediately rule in favor of Mr. George, and instead indicated he needed to do some additional research.
At that point, I said hey, what do I know, I’m just a dumb blogger, but maybe if I provide my dumb blogger’s “research,” Judge Perry’s eyes might just come across it. (But really, I mean it’s not like Judge Perry’s law clerks or staff lawyers, or any lawyer involved in the case for that matter, would ever read my blog.)
Does Double Probation Means Double Jeopardy?
Defense Attorney Lisabeth Fryer (whom I think is an excellent advocate) asserted that since Ms. Anthony could have been violated while she was in jail (which, as you will see, is true), the court must consider Casey Anthony to have been actually supervised. Otherwise, requiring her to be supervised a second time would constitute double jeopardy.
There are two flaws with this argument (one of which is fatal) and if carried to their logical conclusion, shows that this argument should not prevail.
A Sword and a Shield
First, you can bet your bottom $200,000 dollars that had Ms. Anthony’s probation actually been “violated” while she was in jail, the defense would have argued that she was not on probation in jail, as Judge Strickland’s “oral pronouncement” was clear that her probation was not to start until she “was released” from jail.
Thus, probation had no jurisdiction to violate someone who was not on probation and the court would therefore have no jurisdiction to conduct a Violation of Probation proceeding.
While this is nothing more than an academic exercise, you can bet that the legal positions would have been reversed had such a scenario occurred.
Thus, it seems patently obvious that the defense is only using the “scrivener’s error” as a sword now, but would obviously have used it as a shield had Ms. Anthony been violated while in jail. And as you will read below, the United States Supreme Court has cautioned that the constitutional prohibition against double jeopardy should not be used to turn sentencing into “a game in which the wrong move by the judge means immunity for the prisoner.”
Prospective Violations are Permissible
Unfortunately for the Casey Anthony defense, the Florida Supreme Court has clearly found that a court can prospectively violate someone. A prospective violation means that a defendant who is sentenced to jail to be followed by probation, can be found in violation of probation, while still serving the jail portion of the sentence, before beginning to actually serve the probationary portion of their sentence. Stafford v. State, 455 So. 2d 385 (Fla. 1984).
The Florida Supreme Court adopted the following opinion when holding a trial court has the inherent ability to revoke a person’s probation before it is even started:
The question here is whether a probationer can, with impunity, engage in a criminal course of conduct (or for that matter any course of conduct which is essentially contrary to good behavior) during the interval between the date of an order of probation and some subsequent date when the probationary term is to commence.
We think not. To hold otherwise would make a mockery of the very philosophy underlying the concept of probation, namely, that given a second chance to live within the rules of society and the law of the land, one will prove that he will thereafter do so and become a useful member of society.
As a result of the Stafford opinion, Ms. Fryer’s argument (that because Ms. Anthony could have been violated, the court must consider her to have been on probation) is unpersuasive.
This is because the court already had the inherent authority to revoke Ms. Anthony’s probation before it commenced if she committed an act that would have constituted a violation while on probation. (This actually comes up frequently when one inmate commits a battery on another inmate.)
Guidance on Addressing the Legal Morass
While I would agree that I could find no case exactly like Ms. Anthony’s situation, I nonetheless believe there are plenty of cases that provide guidance on how Judge Perry Should rule.
This is because while the Department of Corrections likely never catches when they release someone from probation early, there are legions of cases where someone has been released from prison early – only to be returned once the mistake is identified.
For Example…
In Carson v. State, 489 So. 2d 1236 (Fla. 2d 1986) the defendant was sentenced to thirty months imprisonment with credit for time served” on January 14, 1985. (Notably the court left it up to corrections to determine the amount of time served.) Corrections gave the defendant credit for 546 days of credit when he should have received 173 days.
On May 16, 1985, more than 60 days after the sentence was imposed, the state filed a motion to correct appellant’s sentence to reflect the correct amount of credit for time served. The court granted the state’s motion and issued an amended sentence, nunc pro tunc, January 14, 1985.
The defendant appealed arguing his sentence was being illegally increased after he had already been discharged and that the court lacked jurisdiction to modify a sentence after sixty days.
The appellate trial court rejected the defendant’s argument and stated the trial court was neither correcting an illegal sentence nor reducing a legal sentence, but was attempting to execute the original sentence it had ordered. The court went on to state, “a court may correct clerical mistakes in its own judgments and records, nunc pro tunc, even after the term of court has expired, and such corrections generally relate back and take effect as of the date of judgment.”
Finally, the court in Carson ruled that if a defendant is released or discharged from prison (or in Ms. Anthony’s case, probation) by mistake, the defendant may be recommitted if the sentence would not have expired had she remained in confinement.
In Ms. Anthony’s case, her probation sentence would not expire until July 17, 2012; so there is plenty of time to fix the clerical error so she serves the intended sentence.
A Legal Smörgåsbord for Judge Perry
Finally, there is Gallinat v. State, 941 So. 2d 1237 (Fla. 5th DCA 2006) that was issued by the Fifth District Court of Appeals (the same appellate court Ms. Anthony would have to appeal too).
The defendant in Galliant was sentenced concurrently in two cases to 33 1/2 months in prison. The sentencing documents sent to the Department of Corrections reflected credit for 285 days served in county jail prior to sentencing in each case.
The truth though, was that the defendant had only done 264 days in one case and 96 days in the other. Three months later, the trial court entered a “corrected order,” which reduced the jail credit award in each case to 264 and 96 days respectively, which reflected the time actually served by the defendant. (This also meant that he would sit in prison for about four months more.)
Well, wouldn’t you know it, the defendant appealed and argued virtually identical grounds as Ms. Anthony’s attorneys argued. The Fifth District Court of Appeal rejected the defendant’s arguments on multiple grounds, which I will briefly summarize below:
- The Court saw no difference between a correction made by one of the Department’s commitment auditors and a judge’s correction in the reporting of time that an inmate has served toward a sentence when the error is brought to the court’s attention by the state or the court’s clerk. Neither correction implicates a defendant’s constitutional right to be free of double jeopardy.
- Correcting the time served to properly reflect that historical fact will not result in imprisonment for more than the maximum, and does not “increase the sentence.” Rather, the correction simply ensures that the defendant will serve the sentence judicially imposed.
- The United States Supreme Court has cautioned that the constitutional prohibition against double jeopardy should not be used to turn sentencing into “a game in which the wrong move by the judge means immunity for the prisoner.” That is exactly what would happen here if we were to hold that a judge could never correct a time-served calculation in the “typical” case.
- In addressing double jeopardy claims in the sentencing context, the United States Supreme Court has focused on the “legitimate expectations” of the defendant. Meaning, the defendant’s only legitimate expectation should be to serve the full sentence imposed, and not catch a break because of a clerical error.
- It is appropriate to consider legitimate expectations of the victim of a particular crime involved in a case, and of society in general. Both should be able to legitimately expect that the crime will be punished, which includes a right to expect that a lawfully-imposed sentence will be fully served.
The bottom lime, a clerical error can be corrected at any time BEFORE the sentence would expire so that a defendant fulfills the sentence actually imposed.
My Prediction: A “Splitting of the Baby“
My final prediction is that Judge Perry will essentially split the baby when resolving this issue.
On one hand, I am pretty sure he is probably not to pleased with the way Foghorn Leghorn accused Judge Strickland of engaging in fraud by entering an order Nunc Pro Tunc (which is a latin turn, meaning “now for then”). So when Judge Strickland issued the clarification order Nunc Pro Tunc, he was not saying that the events reflected in the minutes occurred on August 1, 2011; he was legally saying, although I am signing this document on August 1, 2011, they signature is to be retroactively applicable to when I originally signed the document January 25, 2010.
Also, with the State taking the position that Ms. Anthony should be on probation, he risks being reversed should the State appeal. This puts more pressure on him to rule correctly, as opposed to what would be easier – which is to get Ms. Anthony out of his hair for good.
On the other hand, by being the Chief Judge of the Ninth Judicial Circuit, he is also the defacto Chief Criminal Justice Administrator for the Ninth Judicial Circuit. Meaning he knows the State, law enforcement, and probation have better things to be doing than dealing with Ms. Anthony’s safety and her hoard of enemies she now has (never mind the hysteria should a violation ever be alleged).
And You Thought Judge Strickland Was Solomon Like
As a result I believe he will pull a Judge Strickland and be King Solomon like and “split the baby” by entering an order stating she is to be on probation, but that it will be Administrative Probation (which essentially means, don’t ever get arrested and you make it.)
P.S.
Between me and you, if he puts her on Administrative Probation, it would be an illegal sentence.
This is because Administrative Probation is part of a split-sentencing scheme that has to be authorized at the time it is originally imposed (meaning Judge Strickland would have had to impose it) and it requires the first half of her probation to be “supervised” before she can be placed on the “administrative” portion.
The court may also impose split probation whereby, upon satisfactory completion of half the term of probation, the Department of Corrections may place the offender on administrative probation for the remainder of the term of supervision. Florida Statute 948.012(3)
But at this point, any type of accountability would be palatable. Ms. Anthony and her shady band of lawyers beat the murder rap, there is no reason they should also beat a simple probation rap.
289 responses to “For Judge Perry’s Eyes Only”
Richard, you always shed such wonderful light on things, and this case is no different. Thank you for being there and forever filling in the blanks!! … Pam
Very interesting Mr. Hornsby – I feel he will let her go, seems CA is never held accountable for anything! Why worry about her safety she is running around having staged pictures of herself as though she has no care in the world. OJ was bigger than her and no one harm him – but Karma did it’s job on him – which we can only hope for Casey. I would like to know how C.Mason gets away with such childness behavior in public? This whole DT is a disgraced and they better watch it – Casey is very evil and they really don’t know who they are dealing with! Like NG says ” the devil is dancing tonight”,!
Well I seldom agree with Nancy Disgrace, I do think Casey Anthony is likely to re-offend. But not right now. As long as she is being cosseted and financed by others, she will behave and play the game.
If the day should ever come that she has to actually provide for herself, its a given, she will resort to stealing again. As for the lying that will never stop. No amount of theraphy will cure what ails this woman.
Will be interesting to see how long Baez and Mason allow this albatross to stick around. The big bucks just dont seem to be materializing and she currently has considerable money worries which look set to increase, should she be held accountable for some of the investigative costs the State are asking for. Then, how to they keep her indigent status whilst they deal with the appeals and frivolous or not law suits.
And regardless of ole Mason’s talk about family and what a nice ” kid” she is, make no mistake Miss Anthony needs her lawyers far more than they need her. I predict being the hypocrite that he is, Mason will be the first to bail and he will never offer her a job as a paralegal. Maybe Andrea Lyon will come good on that.
Only in America lol
Well, shoot, send this to him. It makes as much sense and anything else in this misbeggotten tale. Maybe he will DO THE RIGHT THING.
I think the right thing is to stop the circus that surrounds this girl whilst maintaining the integrity of Judge Strickland’s ruling. As Mr H says legal or not go ahead and split the baby, place her on administrative probation. Jose will be fine with that.
At least with that option, she has to kinda behave herself for the next 12 months, and more importantly, she need not be in the media glare which would put a terrible burden on local LE and Probation Services. This woman would not benefit from probation, whilst it might be an inconvenience on her, she will never be a productive member of society. And as stated, there are plenty of logistical reasons why she couldnt serve standard probation in Orlando.
moo
Well why can’t you walk this over to JBP ? I don’t know what our Probation is in Ohio,but new rules should follow whatever happens on this case Probation should be served out of jail.Now let me tell you what also bothers me. Ms. Anthony Has filed for indigency Status with JBP. I read today Anthonys team as asked Celebrity Body Guard to work for her. She wants to LIVE in BEVERLY HILLS. Kris Herzog turned her down. This is a top Body guard.Look it up. Where is the money coming from for this? Is justice FREE for MS. ANTHONY IN OC? How do yoy thing JBP would feel if he knew MS> ANTHONY has $ for BEVERLY HILLS BUT NOT OC.
Excellent article Richard, Judge Perry said “it’s a mess” but I say it’s a “hot freakin mess!”
quote from wftv:
The defense admitted it knew that Casey was not supposed to serve her probation while still in jail, but also knew that the corrections department started her probation and ended it while she was still in jail and never said a word to anyone.
This ALONE, imo, says it all, more scumbag tactics that we watched Baez pull during the trial, seems he thinks “don’t ask, don’t tell” applies to the rule of law. imo, a real POS that gives attonrey’s a bad name, outrageous imo, as most attorney’s are hard working, honest & diligently defend their client’s to the best of their ability.
Baez can keep trying to make KC “dignified,” but imo, for her to ACCEPT personal responsibility, sell her story if that’s what she wants to do & PAY these civil law suits instead of trying to figure a way for her to file bankruptsy hoping to have any Judgements dismissed & THEN MAKE $$$$$ so she doesn’t have to pay makes me sick. Of course Baez will have his greedy hand out at least to the tune of 30% & God knows what the unstable loose cannon Mason is going to demand. They ALL deserve each other!
I disagree, defense has no obligation to bring mistake to court’s attention.
Richard, they now want to claim the Probation was served, if knowledge had been withheld from the POS Baez, he would be on every talk show pissing & moaning about it, attorney’s shouldn’t complain when they are the butt of jokes, time & time again we have seen this particilar attorney lie & that’s the least of it! In most workplaces a liar isn’t tolerated, seems the legal profession tolerates alot & can continue being the butt of jokes, maybe just deserts!
Who has then the obligation to report the mistake? Judge Perry said the defense had, as officer of the court!
No actually he didnt say that. He did however ask the question and then said ” I dont know”
So who has the obligation? No one knows the answer?
Hi Richard,
I love your website and love, love, love the way you call it like it is – truthfully. Would you please consider going after the scumbags for wasting the JAC funds on behalf of the Florida citizens? I am so sick and tired of the Scamthony’s and the Child Killer’s lawyers laughing at the judicial system and at us.
Thank you Richard – much more helpful this time around for me to understand than your initial probation debate. Quite the conundrum for HHJP and what oh what will he have to say about the Defense’s responsibility as an Officer of the Court? Anything at all this time around or will it be just the usual gentle schooling Baez has received before?
LogicalGirl,
I may be mistaken but I thought I heard Susan Finnigan of the DOC say that she mailed a letter to both Casey and the State Attorneys Office informing them that Casey had completed probation in Jan 2011 which would mean that Mr. George should have known.
Hi JBMission,
Yep, you are mistaken about this. Susan Finnigan stated that a letter was sent to Casey and her victim, Amy H. informing them that Casey had successfully completed her probationary period. The SAO received no letter of notification when the probation began or when it was completed.
So if the probation was served in jail and Casey violated it by smuggling letters to another inmate could she get sent back to jail? Implausible, i know but so is a babykiller turned celebrity.
Also wasn’t the Correction Officer fired due to those letters?
Those letters that she sent to another inmate along with the hair cutting incident both occurred prior to the initiation of her non-legitimate year of probation began. They don’t count.
SAO’s spoke with the inmate who was the reciepant of those letters (which she sent to a friend to save for the potential of selling them to a tabloid). They TOLD HER TO KEEP WRITING BACK AND FORTH TO CASEY. i.e. they condoned the “illegal” action in order to try to incriminate Casey by her own words. It would be hypocrisy to now come back and try to convict her or use those actions against her.
They never told Robyn Adams to keep writing Casey, by the time the letters were discovered Robyn Adams had been transferred to federal prison and had not heard from Casey in months.
I knew I had something else to ask you besides complimenting you on the above excellent and helpful argument – and here’s my question.
We know she was given time served for the cheque writing fraud charges, and then when she was given one year each on four of lying to LE charges, she was given again time served for being in jail awaiting charges, so she was left with only a couple of days. So how was she able to both be serving her probation and serving time on the second set of charges at the same time? Or does that matter?
I appreciate you answering me because this has really been annoying me to not know the answer! Thanks in advance.
Perversely, I would enjoy seeing Judge Perry rule true to form and impose a second probation on Casey Anthony. Ultimately it would be successfully appealed and Judges Perry and Strickland would end with egg on their faces and Ms. Anthony’s civil rights case against these yahoos in Orange/Osceola would be further supported. This is blatantly abusive.
Lets forget about the babys civil rights that were violated when her mother KILLED her, ron. Youre right, we should really be concerned about this womana rights. I think that the fact that she unfortunately still has the right to breathe should be enough.all shes entitled to imo.
Mr. Hornsby,
Thank you for this great article! Should we email it to HHJP? Just kidding!
I would like to know if you “really” think KC would be in any kind of danger? It seems she was not feeling threatened when she was strolling in Ohio! I didn’t see any bodyguard or anybody with her.
My opinion is that KC’s lawyers want to keep her in hiding so she would not pay her debts and would never have to give any deposition in the civil suits. Also I never believed KC is grieving for Caylee, nor she is doing therapy! She is as happy as she can be, after all she is being herself! Her lawyers want us to believe that.
Good Evening Atty Hornsby: Great article. I live in Massachusetts and probation is never served in jail,it’s unheard of. How are they suppose to prove themselves unless on the outside? She should be made to do the probation but IMHO I agree with the spilt you talk about,but the supervised should be for the first 6mos. then Administratively for the remainder. She should not be give any special treatment either,this sends out the wrong message to others that are currently serving probation, and all are going to want the same.
I find your blogs very interesting and have read all of the cases you have referenced and although I’m not a lawyer and don’t play one on TV and didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn last night, I have to say it sounds to me like the appellate courts as well as the Florida Supreme Court seem to be saying you can’t serve probation while in jail.
Now my question Mr. Hornsby if I am correct and Florida’s courts believe probation is what most states assume probation is, then how can the DOC say it happens and how can the State Attorney spokesman, say she served probation in jail and that it is not unheard of?
Now a good friend of mine is an attorney, I tell him he’s an ambulance chaser because he’s a civil attorney.lol I asked him what would happen if the DOC made a mistake and let someone out of jail before they had served their sentence or mistakenly said someone had served probation and the person stole someone’s car or broke into their house or injured someone and it came to light that they should have been in jail or they should have been being supervised? He laughed and said I’m sure they could find an ambulance chaser to sue the state. Now do you agree with my ambulance chaser friend? I know rarely do lawyers agree on anything, but I’m curious about your opinion?
Thanks,
I enjoy reading your blog and twitter comments, although tweeting is not my thing, I rather just stalk all the tweeters and see what they’re tweeting. lol
I appreciate that Judge Perry is researching this matter, but surely the Chief Judge is well schooled in all aspects of probation. Is this just a stall tactic to allow us a “cooling off period” ?
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Leslie Van Houten was on parole for a year when hers was revoked and she was sent back to prison. Her lawyers have argued endlessly that she never reoffended when she was free for that year but she has never been given parole again.
This is not an impossible decision. Judge Perry just needs to stand up and do the right thing – correct the error that was made, give Casey the parole she was supposed to have and move on. It’s not that hard.
IF Casey really was on parole in jail then why WASN’T she penalized for her violation of parole when she wrote that stack of letters and passed them to her jail friend. Why did she never have to do anything to complete parole? IMHO it’s clear the parole thing was wrongly handled as if it was a mere formality that they were getting out of the way since Casey was never getting out anyway. I hold the DT and the SA’s both responsible for allowing this to happen. I hope the lesson learned here is what happens when you get lax about doing your job.
But Anthony wasn’t on parole. She wasn’t even serving a sentence. The Probation Office erroneously started a term of probation AFTER she had been given time served for check fraud, which was surprisingly btw was a first offence for her. She was still kept in the County Jail due to her pending murder trial.
As far as I am aware Leslie Van Houten has consistenly been denied parole. She apparently appeared in front of the parole board for the 19th time in July 2010 and was again denied parole.
This is not simple matter. When a Judge rules precedents can be set.
I would however agree with you , given this case was all over the news, one would think the DOC and the Probation Office might have checked the tolling issue with the sentencing Judge. How hard can it be? Maybe they will be on their toes now. lol
I don’t know how you can compare and contrast Ms Anthony with Ms Houten. Both are killers but only one was convicted. Parole and probation are different.
Ms Houten did not even receive a compassionate release from incarceration once it was clear to her attending physician that she was terminal. For many years she was denied parole because the parole board did not believe she was remorseful. She remained upbeat and without shame for many, many years.
Once she was diagnosed with cancer she regretted her inability to show guilt. She died holding the hand of the one and only person who she successfully manipulated for years-a good and decent man who suspended his life goals and aspirations to be of service to someone he did not believe was a criminal or disordered. The parole board believed she was dangerous.
Leslie Van Houten is not dead. Susan Atkins died from brain cancer.
I was referring to Sue Atkins.
Wow. These comments are a mess. Van Houten is still alive and well. Susan “Sadie” Atkins is the one who was blocked from a compassionate release and died of cancer.
Parole and probation are two entirely different things.
Come on, people.
The clarification was made long before you posted. Come on, read before you post.
I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW HOW IN THE WORLD YOU DO PROBATION IN JAIL IN SOLITARY CONFINEMENT. THIS DOES NOT EVEN MAKE COMMON SENSE
could someone please explain to me how Casey double dipped on the time served sentences on both convictions the felonies as well as the later misdemeanor convictions? Why should the original 412 days have been added to the later sentence? Does Judge Perry NOW have another option; revisit/revise his July 2011 sentencing order, correct the time served miscalculation and order an additional period of probation on those convictions.? He is well within the 60 days limit to correct his own orderis he NOT? This would seem to simplify things and let Judge Strickland off of the hot seat.. thank you
Does it bother anyone that Judge S recused himself twice?
Does it not bother anyone that Judge S went on tabloid tv and showed obvious bias?
Is it not obvious that while he was forming his opinion and imposing these sentences that he was engaging in practices that lead to self recusal?
Should we not expect Judges to be impartial anymore? Is that a thing of the passed?
I think the fact that he recused himself said he knew he could not be impartial and wanted another judge to make the final ruling. Had he had not done that, then I could see your point. But in this case, I think he did the right thing by removing himself from the final ruling.
He recused himself because he unwittingly got caught up in the chaos that surrounds Ms Anthony. I think it is fair to say that anyone who comes in contact with her is tainted and some are ruined by their association with her. Go down the list and tell me who has not been harmed by her. Mr Baez will rue the day he ever met her.
You do realize, that Judge Strickland could have convicted her of all 13 check fraud charges and sentenced her to 30+ years in prison, but instead withheld adjudication on seven counts, meaning she was only a 6 time convicted felon instead of 13 time convicted felon, sentenced her to time served on all counts and 1 year of probation once released on the seven counts he withheld adjudication on.
No other judge I can think of would have gone that easy on her considering she was being held on murder charges. To imply that Judge Strickland was unfair or was not impartial to her is ludicrous.
She literally got a slap on the wrist for the check fraud charges and you are somehow complaining that Judge Strickland was acting biased towards her? Get real.
It seems that a bit of “getting real” is exactly what this blog needs. Is it your suggestion that Judge Strickland (or any judge) should be exempt from charges of bias because he didn’t sentence Casey Anthony to “30+ years in prison” for stealing $644? You think that “going easy” on a 22 year-old with no prior criminal record, who made restitution, who plead guilty, and who according to the judge had already served more time than normal for such crimes amounts to six felony convictions? That’s “going easy”? Six felony convictions is “going easy”? I wonder what your criminal law clients will think the next time you tell them that, “the judge will probably go easy on you.” Get real indeed!
You also gloss over that the $644 was stolen while Caylee Anthony’s body was rotting somewhere. That is hardly a typical circumstance and I see judges routinely hammer defendant’s with substantial sentences (though not the maximum) when the person is being held on related heinous crimes. Regardless of what your pop law education may make you believe, Judge Strickland gave her the absolute most lenient sentence any judge would have given.
Ha! “Pop”? As in pop psychology or pop music? I suppose you mean “pop law education” as an insult. You must not know that the whole purpose of your blog is for “pop” reasons. Ditto for your “legal expert” analysis on television. Your own education must have been at state schools. My favorite thing about your blog is that it memorializes your wrong predictions and unprofessional commentary. You guys in Orange County…pure class.
Ron, you do realize that almost everything I predicted came to pass. (The only issue I was flatly wrong on is I always thought a jury would find her guilty of Aggravated Manslaughter of a Child.)
Well I’m no lawyer and don’t pretend to know the law like you, Mr. Hornsby…but common sense tells me that just because Casey was being held in jail awaiting trial for the murder of her child, the Constitution guaranteed her certain protections, one of which is the presumption of innocence until guilt is proven. Given that, how is it that any unbiased judge could “throw the book” at her just because she was being held on charges for a different crime? Being held awaiting trial for a “related heinous crime” means that she had not been found guilty of that allegedly “related heinous crime”, so what bearing should the fact that she was being held pending trial have had on Strickland’s handling of the check fraud case? Or isn’t “innocent until proven guilty” the norm in FL?
Omar,
If Judge Strickland was going to “throw the book” at her, he would have convicted her of all 13 charges with the max sentence. That could have demonstrated him being biased. IMO he didn’t even throw half a book at her.
Actually, I wasn’t complaining. I was asking. I am trying to find out what the norm is, since I have no education in law. I was suggesting that there was bias. Starting with making a statement of “Ms Anthony and the truth are strangers” I found that odd that an impartial Judge would say such a thing before trial, but hey, I am learning the definitions over the past 3 years. I felt that his decision to bring up the probation after going on tabloid tv was based on his bias feelings. As far as his sentencing of Kc at the check fraud trial, I have no idea what a normal sentence would be. He said in court that she would be treated the same in sentencing as any other first time offender would be treated. If that is what happened, I have no problem with it.
Without suggestion and its just a question, should we expect Judges to be impartial anymore? Is that a thing of the past? sincerly
oops edit. Should we not expect judges to be impartial anymore? sorry
NTS-I think it is almost laughable that you would talk about the lack of impartiality in Judge Strickland. He did not create or change law when he sentenced Ms Anthony and to further support his egalitarian and obvious fairmindedness towards the defendant he discussed the probationary period with both sides. Could anyone standing before Judge Strickland honestly know the outcome of her upcoming capital case? No. And in light of having no ability to predict the future, he sentenced her to one year of probation upon release. Mr Baez had no reason to reject the Judge’s ruling. Mr Baez was aware that probation had been in to see Ms Anthony once.
He was the judge presiding over FL v Anthony and he knew come hell or high water there would be a conviction and that at some point in time she would “be released”.
It’s funny that you should question anyone’s impartiality when you are so biased. Your bias has inhibited a civilized conversation for close to 2.5 years. But what trumps your bias is your lack of shame.
Read Susan Estrich’s article on “No such thing as completely impartial. (4/29/2011)
Maybe poor Amy can expect her current bf wouldn’t clean out her bank account. This was not a victimless crime. And by all accounts Anthony was the one who relieved Amy of that other mysterious $400.00 dollars.
30 years for $644?Yikes
Those are the guidelines and no one is presently serving 30 years for draining anyone’s checking account in Florida or anywhere else in this country. The Judge knows what the guidelines are and he dismissed most of the counts against her. For the sake of argument she served a day for every dollar spent. If Ms Anthony was looking at 30 years than Mr Madoff should have gotten 5000.
Seems to me Judge Strickland gave her a sweet deal on the fraud charges.
The probation was mandatory as he gave her multiple with-holds on felony counts.
And I think you meant to write “a thing of the PAST.
I am sorry if you have already answered this. I did a quick scan of your blog and could not find an answer. Should she have been given credit for time served during the “probation” period? If JP decides to give her credit for probation, can he send her back in jail to serve the rest of her sentence for the lying charges? What does case law say about that?
To the best of my knowledge you cannot serve time for crimes and go on probation all at the same time. The sentence is served and the probation is served after release. She was sentenced to time served for the economic crimes and the remainder of her time while incarcerated from January 25, 2010 -July 17, 2011 she was in effect serving time for what she was eventually accused of at trial- 4 counts of Lying to Law Enforcement. If she was on probation how is it that she was given time served and a few extra days? Was she on probation while serving time for Lying to LE?
That’s not what happened here. On January 25th 2010, and for what the Court considered a first offence she plead guilty to 13 felony counts relating to check fraud. Her lawyers asked for adjudication to be with-held. but the Judge with – held on 7 counts and adjudicated her guilty on 6. Judge Strickland gave her time served and a mandatory period of probation to be undertaken on her release from jail. The start date for the probation was undeterminable on the day of sentencing because she was being held without bond pending the start of her murder trial. The time served portion credited i.e 412 days was not related to any SENTENCE.
When she walked on the murder charge, and was convicted of 4 counts of lying Perry allowed time served to be calculated back to October 14th 2008. Why? Who knows. She was also credited with gain time.
Crucially when the Probation Officer wrongly started her probation period, she was not serving any sentence. No-one could predict the outcome of the murder trial. During the interim period of probation starting and the start of her murder trial, the probation office documented that she had successfully completed her term of probation on January 24th 2011, which was almost 4 months before the murder case even started. For period 25th January 2010, she was not under sentence.
Sorry missed a bit out at the end of the post.
For period 25th January 2010 till adjudicated guilty of the lying counts on July 5th 2011 she was NOT serving a sentence for any prior crime.
I don’t quite see it that way.
No, she should not have been given credit for the time served as probation. That time was credited towards her convictions for lying.
Judge Strickland sentenced Ms Anthony to time served and one year probation. Everyone standing before him believed that Ms Anthony might be “released” in 35+ years and “upon release” she was to begin her probation.
But according to the DOC she was on probation while awaiting trial. Let’s take a look at what she did while on “probation”: She continued to tell lies; she continued to deflect the blame and punishment onto others; she reported her father’s sexual abuse 13 years after the fact; her brother “followed in his father’s footsteps” as a sexual abuser; she implicated her father in the death of her child and in the disposal of her body. Of course the man who found the remains was “morally corrupt”, a body snatcher, a lowlife, a wife beater, a sexual deviant and someone familiar with restraining others. He never knew the defendant.
While on probation the jail received one call from her PO wondering if she was still incarcerated. I say Judge Perry gives her probation because she is a dangerous person who needs supervision.
Richard can you tell me how long Casey can continue to file indigency status in FLA? She is supposedly NOT in Orlando and according to her attorney’s of record plan on never returning. What is her legal address? Certainly not Hopespring. Just because she’s welcome there her attorney’s publicly stated she will NOT return there. What constitutes residency?
None of those issues matter when determining indigence, the only thing that matters is how much she claims to make.
Mr H
Could you indulge on a hypothetical. If she did infact receive $$$ for the TMZ pics and Baez helped negotitate or was simply aware that money changed hands. Does he as an officer of the Court have to declare those earnings subsequent to filing insolvency paper work for the appeal.
TIA
Doubtful.
Ah! TY! What about the “donations” in the “thousands” that Mason has claimed is being sent to his office for Casey? Is that not income? Who’s monitering this?
Richard…Please clear this up for me as I am a “lay person”.. Why was Casey given the same 412 days credit for the Check Fraud (felony) and the 4 counts of lying to law enforcement (misdemeanors)? Shouldn’t this be Double Dipping?
I think there is some Serious Fuzzy Math going on in the 9th Judicial Circuit.
Mr. Hornsby,
You might enjoy the following Op-Ed; entitled “Jose Baez: Past, present and future”. It’s spot on!
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/309991
Snippet:
It would be uncharitable to suggest that Mr Baez is just disgusting, but the acquittal of Casey Anthony surely represents the zenith of his legal career. He should seriously consider writing a book and retiring on the proceeds, otherwise like many truly great fighters before him such as Sugar Ray Leonard, he is likely to end up flat on his back and counted out, a fate from which all the razzle dazzle in the world will not save him.
Excellent article Jessica L. Spot on is correct.
Thanks for sharing.
I wish the SAO would go after George and Lee with sexual abuse charges. Not sure I believe it happened. Casey would then have to confirm or deny it happened and it would be a she said-he said scenario. If she claimed it did happen and it wasn’t true, hopefully it would motivate George and Cindy to pursue civil action against Casey for Caylee’s death. If Casey were to deny it ever happened then who knows what would happen to Baez and team? Regardless it would get her under oath and on the stand in front of a judge and who knows what else may come out. Also if the Allegations are true against George and Lee (which are serious) then they should be held accountable.
The sexual abuse allegations attempted to explain why Ms Anthony was a liar. Nothing more and nothing less.
She couldn’t come forward and say the child drowned in the pool because her father sexually abused her. Did she lie about her whereabouts for 31 days because she was sexually abused? Did she lie to LE because she was sexually abused? Did she lie to Amy H. because she was sexually abused? Did she lie to AT&T, BOA, JCPenny, Visa and MC, her mother, father, friends and acquaintences, and her grandmother because she was sexually abused?
The whole case was predicated on who was the bigger liar. Was it Mr Anthony, Mr Kronk, River Cruz or the defendant? They said Ms Anthony told more lies so they convicted her of lying. Nothing more and nothing less.
Personally, I think that article completely overlooked that Baez did what good criminal defense lawyers do; he picked a defense friendly jury and convinced them reasonable doubt existed.
The only thing she brings up that I agree was patently unprofessional (if not unethical) is the molestation allegations. Everything else was more than fair game; Kronk’s past, the expert’s financial motives, and especially George’s odd behavior.
As for the Casey Anthony case being the zenith of his career, I agree, but only because the Casey Anthony case was a case of a lifetime. And when you win the case of a lifetime, where else can you go?
Judge Perry said, in court yesterday, that he would look at Administrative Probation or “some other type of probation”. Assuming that he doesn’t give Administrative Probation, for the reasons you have stated, what other types of probation are there ? I have looked and can’t find any.
You have cited ample authority for the proposition that probation tolls while a person is serving another sentence, but do you have any authority for the proposition that probation tolls while a defendant is in jail on a pre-trial hold? They are entirely different situations and I have yet to find any authority in Florida law for the latter proposition.
I have yet to see any statute or case law that would have allowed Judge Strickland to order probation not to begin until some indeterminate, later date after resolution of another case that did not yet even involve a conviction. A sentence can’t be ordered to run consecutively to a sentence that does not exist yet, can it?
If the original sentence order, for probation not to begin until she was released from custody on the other case, was illegal, how can Judge Perry enforce it now?
Actually, if you go back to my post “For Whom the Sentence Tolls,” I cite a case that involved a person being held pretrial.
Which case? Those cases all appear to me to involve other sentences. And if you are correct, why does Florida DOC acknowledge that people serve probation while in jail pending trial on other charges?
Ok, evidently you aren’t interested in engaging in dialogue with anyone who has the temerity to challenge your interpretation of the law.
Good Evening Atty: Hornsby: I have a question I hope you can answer. If Judge Perry puts Casey Anthony on probation,then Baez Appeals it,will she be on/off probation pending the outcome of the Appeal? Won’t it take some time for the Appeal to be heard? So, more than likely the probation would be over by the time Appeal is heard,correct or incorrect? Thank-you in advance for a reply.
Her probation would continue to run until a ruling is made.
Richard, notthatsmart is either an Anthony, Baez or one his minions..not that it matters to you..or me..just wanted you to be aware of that..Been pretty common knowledge online for a couple years now. Suppose I should say IMHO since there is that 1% chance I’m wrong…although I’m not 😉
notthatsmart is also aptly named…..
Re: NTS and the other Casey Anthony cheerleaders:
You won’t hear about it in main stream media, but there is wide-spread assumption that he contracted with a marketing group in Fall 2008. It’s a well-established fact that such companies will “promote” the heck out of whatever you pay them to promote. The blog/internet message board “consumer niche” has been capitalized upon for a long time. Whether paid bloggers write about the lastest movie, handbag, cosmetics, Democratic candidate, Apple device OR EVEN “Casey Anthony’s innocence”—-it’s being MARKETED. People like NTS and those who hang at jbmission will deny they are just poorly-paid marketing schmucks til they’re blue in the face……….but rest assured they are liars. They cannot admit they are part of the Baez marketing machine…..it would destroy the illusion that Casey has legitimate suppoters. Now granted, she may have a handful of people who like her (even Manson gets fanmail)…..but the persistent bloggers who are always calling “foul” on everyone EXCEPT Casey are just cogs in the machine. Sad, but true.
oops…by “he” I mean JOSE BAEZ. Casey and his marketing campaign behind her is his “brass ring”. Of course he’s going for it b@lls to the wall!
YAFN-You are incorrect. Mrs Anthony loved Caylee unconditionally. Notthatsmart has never discussed the victim and is steadfast in her conviction that a murder did not take place. She has been “sleuthing” for nearly three years and while engrossed in her efforts to “understand” what happened (to Casey) she neglected to take into consideration that the victim was meaningless to the defendant. Nothing this young mother did before, during or after the commission of the crime offends NTS.
Soooo..who would a citizen contact if that citizen had proof that there was some sort of funny business going on between an attorney and a judge? Obviously the FL bar is useless….how about the US Department of Justice? Or are citizens just sitting ducks for corruption within the judicial system?
I aint even got a suit, let alone a law degree. lol I am just not that smart and that was my point when I asked the simple question. “Should we not expect Judges to be impartial anymore? ” It must hit a nerve with some folks because it generates negative responses and finger pointing. There may be a lot of legal reasons that a Judge would appear to be partial but is actually impartial. Perception becomes reality. Each person percieves things in their own way.
I felt he was biased. I felt he sided with the state. I felt he played to the camera’s. I was satisfied that he recused himself. I never saw it coming and it surprised me that in the end, he would go on the tabloid tv shows and insert his bias again, and then go back and rule on the probation, recuse again and go on vacation.
He has a right to his feelings and I have a right to mine. The difference is, that he was in a position of power to act on those feelings and then give up those powers to someone else after the deed was done.
What purpose would it serve at this point to make her serve probation? Is it high hopes that she will violate the probation and end up back in jail where she belongs after murdering her daughter? Or is it good intentions and it would help her to come back into society as a law abiding and productive citizen? I think the motivation is the former.
I guess it doesn’t matter how it came about. The Issue was dropped in Judge Perry’s lap and now he must resolve the issue. If we go by his history during the trial, he will side with the state, but things are different now. Since Kc was declared not guilty, Judge Perry does not have to face all those appeals anymore and his record is still clean. Whew!! Does he now want to make a ruling that will likely be appealed?
I think what he should do is end it. Wash the states hands of Kc and explain it in a way that will satisfy the emob. The state should not be involved in tit for tat after a verdict. They should focus on what is in front of them and not dwell on the past. We need them to be focused on getting real criminals. IMO and MOO
Why don’t you just sit back and relax and be mindful that the rule of law applies in Orlando and in every jurisdiction in this country. Allow Ms Anthony the opportunity to “prove” she is a law abiding citizen and that her lying, theiving and predatory ways of being are a thing of the past. Let her spend the time while on probation to seek counseling and a job, possibly get her GED and the opportunity to make a life for herself.
I agree with you 100% that he should not have gone on TV; but the reason I don’t think he did anything unethical or unprofessional is that he did not seek out probation to correct the issues, they contacted him (paradoxically, should they be recused from supervising her by showing their bias). All he did was issue a clarified order, which multiple cases I have cited say was completely appropriate.
Do I think Casey should do probation? No, but I don’t see the point of probation for about 60% of the people placed on probation. And that is my problem, instead of treating Casey like every other defendant is treated, we are treating he how we “think” every other defendant should be treated.
And considering that the crime she was convicted cost this community more than a million dollars in actual costs for looking for Caylee, as well as untold volunteer hours that were wasted, I think of all people that should be required to pay the price that was imposed, Casey should.
To do otherwise would be to treat her differently than everyone else in the same position, and that is why I think letting her off is unfair.
But isn’t it her right to remain silent? Remain silent and tell her story to a jury of her peers? Didn’t the majority of people not believe her story that she told the police on July 15th 16th? Wasn’t everyone calling her a liar? So, why did they go out and search? They went out and searched because of their own beliefs. IMO If they believed her original story, they would not have been searching the woods. Are you saying kc should be responsible for folks selective beliefs and opinions? That she fooled them somehow with her lies and deceit? When they never believed a word she said in the first place?
I understand that she should have told them about the drowning on June 16th, but the excuse was that she was doing what her Father told her to do. On October 14th she had a second chance now that she knew her father turned against her. She chose to remain silent at that point. There may be legal reasons for that, like defense strategy. I am not sure, but the system encourages you to remain silent. She may have wanted to scream the truth, but the system wouldn’t allow it. She did the right thing by holding out til trial. Anything you say , can and will be used against you in a court of law. Perhaps she took those words seriously. MOO
It is and was her right to remain silent, but in the beginning she chose not to. She did not have to even speak to the 911 operator, but that is where her kidnapping story first became public. There were people who did not closely follow the case, but wanted to help some people even believed her story. It is also known that kidnappers do frequently kill the kidnapped child. Others believed if not “zanny” then someone else may have kidnapped Caylee and Casey was protecting that person. Not only that but Baez urged the public several times to look for a live Caylee, and at one point Casey was standing next to him doning her missing Caylee button. Some people where also looking for a live Caylee, tips were called in and Law enforement(even in other parts of the country) were following up. A few families where even interviewed because a tip came in and their child looked like Caylee.
The system did not make her lie, it did not encourage her to remain silent about the “truth’. Her father testified before the Grand Jury, Casey knew he was doing that. Her lawyer also kept her informed, while she was out on bond, she may have even reviewed all the info that was released up to that point. The family(George, Cindy and Lee) encouraged her to go around Baez to speak to someone in law enforcement (FBI or anybody) because they couldn’t understand why Baez would want her to keep quiet about her missing daughter. If George was involved, he would be encouraging her to follow her lawyer’s advice.
In Baez defense, I don’t even think Casey told him the “drowning” story early on. I think she kept up the kidnapping story even with Baez for quite a while. If you have a client you are not sure is truthful, you definately would not want them talking to anyone. I think George became an easy target because of blogs. According to consultant Amy Singer, her and 5 others scanned the blogs and found many suspicious of George, especially concerning River Cruz. Why would the defense have people looking at blogs to formulate their defense if the client was telling them the “truth” of what happened?Why would they be accusing Kronk, Jesse or Jesse’s family if the client told them it was a drowning linked to George?
I don’t think Baez had any idea what would happen 3 years later, and he seemed a bit surprised by the verdict. Even Mason publicly said he was surprised.
But she didnt just remain silent. She persisted with her claim that Caylee was alive. She even sported a missing Caylee t shirt. She CHANGED her initial story from leaving Zanny at Sawgrass to having Caylee forcibly removed from her at Jay Blanchard Park. (see Cindy Anthony’s FBI interview July 30th 2008. With that story came elaborate details about timer 55 and according to her brother, how she was bounced around town by the phantom Zanny, who apparently now controlled her email and social network accounts. LOL Up until Caylee’s remains were found Baez was maintaining in numerous pressers that Caylee was a MISSING child.
How many tips and bogus sightings were generated as a result?
Trip down memory lane courtesy of YouTube.
1. August 29th 2008, whilst being transported to jail for fraud charges, she (unprompted) chose not to remain silent LOL and complains to Det Appie Wells that no Amber Alert was put out for Caylee.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtmuXicets0&playnext=1&list=PLBA1C4F19D6138DFE
2. After her arrest for murder October 14th 2008 and after invoking her right to Counsel & being mirandized she speaks with Nick Savage and repeats that Caylee is alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMJ8TQGA63I&feature=related
I think Miss Anthony had plenty of opportunity to as you put it “scream the truth. The system never prevented that, her friggin guilt and her crazy abduction stories did that.
NTS,
Snipped:
“She may have wanted to scream the truth, but the system wouldn’t allow it.”
What “system” would not allow a person (accused or not) to scream, speak or tell the truth?
And NTS You say she did the right thing by holding out to trial.
What trial are you referring to? When she lawyered up on July 17th 2008, she was only facing charges of child neglect and lying to LE.
Are you seriously claiming she knew she was going to be charged with capital murder and that it would take a further 2.7 years to come to trial? lol
So what you are saying, is that no person should ever be expected to tell the truth when asked why their daughter has been missing. And that is people are dumb enough to believe a person may be truthful, in the face of the greater likelihood her daughter is dead, they should not expect the person to be subsequently punished for lying when convicted by a jury of her peers?
Due process doesn’t entail a person getting off, it only entails them getting their day in court and being treated like everyone else. Casey was convicted of lying, she admitted to stealing, and she should do her time like every other sentenced person.
No more, no less.
Actually, under the circumstances that the DT provided in opening statements, one could understand the script that she was following. That is only if you believe the defense though.
If I were interogated in the way she was on July 16th, I too would not trust to say anything more to John A and Yuri M…They had already made up their minds. Their intentions were not to get to the truth, but to make it be known that they had a lot of combined experience. They didn’t give her much time to talk or elaborate. They were calling her a monster. Their weak interogation practices yielded them nothing. They were showing her that she could not trust them.
In a perfect world with reasonable investigators and normal circumstances, I would expect someone to tell the truth. In a world where a person has been abused most of their life and live in constant fear, and is afraid for their own life, I would expect it to take a little longer to get the whole truth. The only person looking for the truth in that interogation was Appie. And if you listen to “confused” link to the ride with Appie, you will find that Kc can’t shutup. That man knew what he was doing and he should have been the lead investigator. She was starting to trust him and that is why she kept talking.
Kc grew up under the thumb of a former investigator. She was not afraid of them. Their status meant nothing to her. She ate them up and spit them out. She held out for someone she could trust and in my opinion, she did the right thing. My opinion is that those investigators had no authority on something as important as the truth after the way they treated her in that interogation. The only one that was getting anywhere was Appie, but JA and YM stopped that.
Yes, I respect the Law, and I respect Authority, but I expect the same in return.
The way I understand it, she was punished for lying, but perhaps now she is being punished for telling the truth.
I am learning about due process as we speak. lol Evidently there is no excuse for lying, even if it entails losing your own life……
Another sort of stealing is plagiarism. You might want to look into the word for word similarities of text on your practice’s website with text found on other legal sites. A quick check finds much of your DUI web advice to be exactly what is found elsewhere. Looking further I’m sure would uncover other instances of attorneys stealing your words!
Attorneys who blog are often like the proverbial residents of glass houses–they shouldn’t throw stones.
You don’t know why Ms Anthony did anything. You didn’t even have a clear cut idea of the charges against her until March of 2011. You and Ms Anthony are incapable of seeing the truth or whispering it in the ear of someone who would listen. Somehow the “system” wouldn’t allow a mother “to scream the truth” about the whereabouts of her child. I don’t know what country you live in or your mental state but I daresay the system you describe doesn’t exist in my world. Thousands of people showed up to search for Caylee after July 17, 2008. They were relentless in their efforts to find this child.
What you fail to recognize is one simple fact: when LE was preserving the evidence Ms Anthony was exercising her right to self preservation. Intellectually and emotionally she knew telling the truth would have jeopardized her freedom.
You sound like one of those os bloggers that don’t make any sense. First, you have no idea what I know or don’t know. lol You have no idea what I am capable of. lol I live in america where if you give up your trial strategy, you may lose. You have no right to come on here and put me down. Who are you???? You can pretend to say you know people, but it is quite obvious you are all chatter. I was being respectful, but now to beware of you and your childish ways.
NTS
July 16, 2008
What part of “telling the truth” do you disagree with? She had a right to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth to both her parents and LE. She also had the moral and ethical responsibility to tell all concerned where her daughter was and attempt to reconcile what happened to her. If the babysitter “took her” where did she take her? If she was the last person known to mankind to have seen the child on the last day of her life she was legally, morally, and ethically responsible for the child’s well being as she was on the day she was born.
Allowing a child to go without food is against the law. Knowing that you have not fed or clothed or changed your toddler’s pull-up diaper for 31 days but instead were “using your own resources to find her” is total and unequivocal bullshit to most sensible people.
July 2011
Mr Baez told Ms Anthony’s story. In order to tell her story he had to tell her lies. Three years after the fact they had changed but the style and substance of the lies continued to take on or express the same duality/ambiguity of psychopathic speech.
The child was never missing but dead. The child was not murdered but drowned. No one knows to this day who left the child unattended or unsupervised. Mr Baez was clear when he said he was not accusing Mr Anthony of murder. That left many jurors to believe that they should not accuse the mother of murder either. There is a suggestion of wrapping the child in blankets and disposing of her body in ways similar to the burial rites of the family pets. The fact that heart stickers and Caylee’s Winnie the Poo blanket were found at the crime scene simply reinforced the idea that the child was “buried ” and “not thrown in a dump”. Somehow the smell of decomposition was no longer a threat to Ms Anthony’s freedom. The Chloroform put everyone to sleep.
Mr Baez presented a theory of his case which was illogical and beyond the pale and extremely effective. Was it unethical? Probably. But at the end of the day did he convince 12 good men and woman that his client was only a liar and not a murderer? Yes. Was this ever a case of “saving her from the death penalty.” Absolutely not. It was all theatre. Jurors were exposed to significant ptp and knew “death is different” and not much else mattered.
We will see in the coming months whether or not it paid to “save” Ms Anthony’s life.
She had a right to remain silent. She took that right and it worked out for her. She was not obligated to give up trial strategy. She did fulfill her moral and ethical responsiblity and tell her story to a jury of her peers. She admitted to the jury that she lied and she lied for a reason. They understood it just fine. Just because you didn’t interpret it the same way is your problem.
The 31 days was trumped day one of the trial. sheesh there is no evidence that she went without a diaper for 31 days. get real
Mr Baez theory as you point it out was a more believable theory than the state. The states theory was far fetched and not believable to the average joe. Hollywood would not try to pull that one over on you. If you fell for it, too bad. We may never know the whole truth because both of us are stuck with theories from either side.
Kc will move on with her life and probably have children in the future. There is nothing you can do about it. You speak as though you are bitter and you want to blame me. You need to get a grip and maybe go back and watch the trial again. Jurors are not fools. There is no monster that exist that the state presented. The theatrics they played was an insult to the jury.
T he JUDGE DID NOT RE-RULE ON THE ANTHONY PROBATION! TRY AND UNDERSTAND THE FACT! A mistake was written and he just re-stated his ruling.Clarifying his prior order to court. Judge Strickland should have read the court papers but that was his ONLY mistake.
frankie-Why would you say that? You have “obviously” never as much as visited their webpage. Presently there are 91, 450 card carrying, dues paying members. What is patently obvious to me is that everyone associated with Fl v Anthony did what they were mandated to do. From looking for the child, doing an extensive and complete death investigation as well as affording Ms Anthony the funds necessary to mount a defense. She had at any given time 8-9 lawyers and Judge Perry protected Ms Anthony’s right to a fair trial. She was acquitted by 12 people who were not in contact with those who would “corrupt the system”.
The 12 jurors take full responsibility for what 12 million others disagreed with. So be it. I’d rather see Ms Anthony walk than read about some poor, unfortunate innocent man or woman incarcerated for something they never did.
Personally, I don’t have a problem with the verdict, and to be clear, she was not acquitted of every thing. She was found guilty of lying to a law enforcement officer four times and she pleaded guilty to 13 counts of related check fraud charges.
And it is her admitted and convicted lies that costs this community over a million dollars and verifiable costs, not to mention the volunteer hours performed for nothing, hours that could have been used on others. And yet, because she was acquitted of the felony charges, her supporters act as if she was not convicted of anything serious and should be allowed to get off Scot free; never mind that a john doe offender would not get such special consideration.
Well I am one of the MANY that say the JURY made the mistake. The State did prove the case. But I also agree with you that her lies hurt OC and she is still hurting the tax payer . It is a BIG DEAL to write bad checks and lie to the law. Why is not FED going after her for lies to the FBI? BAEZ is no hero. Mason is no hero,Ann Finnell is no hero,Sims is no hero and Lisabeth Fryer is the next 90 day wonder! Ms. Anthony should serve real probation. Out of jail.
Mr. Hornsby,
I agree.
In Georga, the runaway bride Jennifer Wilbanks had claimed she was kindnapped. The story was not true and she had to pay $13,250 towards the costs of the investigation looking for her. The city of Duluth had to write off about $30,000. Their investigation was about 4 days, much shorter than the searches for Caylee.
Personally, I have no problem with the verdict to exonerate Ms Anthony of Felony Murder. That is the price we pay for what most consider to be a fair and equitable system of justice-a system which gives the presumption of innocence until evidence is presented which is overwhelmingly in contradiction to that claim. That did not happen here.
The jurors looked at Lying to LE as separate and distinct charges with no link to the Felony Murder charge. She lied to law enforcement with the same kind of disregard she displayed towards her child. She was an unfit mother but I guess it was okay just as long as she lied about it and acted in ways which convinced others she was a “wonderful mother”. Either way jurors believed she was a liar and possibly if they believed the rapid fire answers given by the few acquaintences and even fewer “friends” relative to her parenting skills, they certainly believed she was a wonderful mother and a terrible liar. Or if she was a terrible mother it was because she was a great liar.
When asked where Caylee was, Casey answered, “Just give me one more day”. For what? To hope and pray that the inordinately large insects that frequented Caylee’s final resting place could have the requsite time to dine one more time on her remains? It took time to get rid of the body and it was no easy task. It was not like any day at the beach Caylee could remember and if her lies were to be believed Caylee would have to be gone forever. How wrong she was. Caylee’s remains and what was found at the crime scene promoted the idea that she was a liar who loved her child.
Who would have thought that her lies to LE would have been her ticket to freedom.
She said give me one more day. You said for what? Well perhaps to talk to her dad and ask what is the new script? You act as though you have the answers as if your take is fact. There is no evidence that Kc knew where Caylee was. How do you know it took time to get rid of the body? Youu have no facts about that. You are full of it, and making things up. Caylees remains at the seen are a grim reminder that we need investigators that know what they are doing. They destroyed the evidence that day in the way they walked all over the scene and scooped up the skull, threw it all in a shroud and then gave it a bumpy ride back to the office and then expected anyone to believe that that managery of mixed bones and bags and botanicles was any indication whatsoever of what was found. You have a lot to learn about how to speak on these blogs with your rude comments. Quit making things up. Learn to speak with respect and you will get respectful speak in return.
NTS,
There is also absolutely no evidence that her father was involved and there was no evidence presented that her father ever sexually abused her. You defend it because Baez said so? Baez threw out the sexual abuse as a shock and awe tactic, and threw in the possible affair and gas can with tape to create suspicion. There was more evidence concerning Lee being inappropriate, but Baez didn’t even question him about it.
You want this all to be like a script in a movie, but it’s just as probable, if not more so, that Casey did this on her own.
Go back and read your own posts, because you also make stuff up and misinterprate information.
Where is it that the investigators distroyed evidence? Do you work for CSI to know how they operate? The remains where scattered, there were people on their hands and knees trying to recover evey bone. Did you ride in the vehicle with the bones to know what kind of ride it was, or even how careful the evidence was handled? Have you ever been one any type of recovery pertaining to human remains? Most of these people who do this are truely caring and dedicated. It can also be an emotional time for many of them.
While I’ve never actually had to recover human remains, twice I was with our fire department’s ladies auxillary and we had a support station set up near recovery sites. We provided a place for the investigators to rest, supply food and beverages, and first aid supplies. I’ve see how dedicated these people are to their job.
Even though the defense and their experts could not be present in the recovery site, nothing was stopping them from parking their happy butts in lawn chairs across the street with high powered binoculars. They had over $200,000 to spend, so I’m sure it would have fit into their budget. Instead, they would rather not observe so they could complain about what they didn’t see later on.
You have a very disrespectful attitude towards all those involved, who jobs are to serve the public. Sounds like you are distrustful of everyone in this case, except Casey.
Its almost sad how delusional u r. Youre one of those who always has to be different, challenge the obvious & try to buck the system whenever u can. We just need to accept that there will always be someone who insists the earth is flat. Fortunately, for us, the majority, with our logic and common sense, we know the earth is round and karma will eventually make its way back around for casey anthony.
Thank you for another informative article, Mr. Hornsby. It’s my opinion that all the legal eagles/beagles, involved in this case, and their staff read your blog.
What to do, What to do? Split the baby, throw the baby out with the bath water, throw the baby out and keep the bath water? UGH!
RH,
I am sorry I got off topic. We were talking about the check fraud case in which Kc plead guilty to. I do not know how I got off course and started talking about the lies. Perhaps you can fill me in on what Judge P dillema is. The court is not there to do what is best for the state. The court is not there to do what is best for the public, and the court is not there to do what is best for Kc. The court is there to resolve the issue. Since the issue derived from within the court (a Judge), wouldn’t the path of least resistance be to side with the defense? Why should the court care what the state thinks? this is no skin off their back, they already lost the case that meant anything to them. Why should the court care what the public thinks? Kc is not a threat to society. People are not afraid that she is going to steal their checks. Wouldn’t it be easiest for the court to decide with the defense?
In my opinion, the court is there to follow the law, not create a law. I believe the judge is working very hard researching. If he finds case law that supports the defense, then I think he will rule in the defendant’s favor.
Kimpossible- If the record is complete and it supports the previous judge’s ruling that “upon release” the defendant will serve one year of probation (CSS) then he will give Ms Anthony probation. The defendant was awaiting trial on a capital murder charge and for all intents and purposes was not released but remained in PC because she did not make bond. The fact that the DOC acted as if she was on probation doesn’t make it so. They did not communicate to anyone but Ms Anthony and her attorney when they visited her once. DOC was not affected by the ptp when they called the jail to see if she was still there.
How could she be on probation and be unable to fulfill the requirements of same? Could she have said, “While I’m on probation I will get my GED and after I finish my homework assignments I will be cleaning up the kitchen and the Day Rooms and preparing the 2PM Tea Service for Visitors. I will clock my hours and anticipate being paid and evaluated for advancement should I show no interest in the other slugs that happen to get in the way of my mob or broom. Oh, and by the way, I will be unable to attend my previously scheduled Bible class on Friday mornings because I will be involved in intensive psychotherapy. I want “upon release” to prove to everyone that I can be a law abiding citizen.
Anon,
I was just trying to point out to NTS that the court is suppose to follow the law, not to base ruling on “no skin off our backs”. I’m sure Judge Perry did not want to have to deal with this “mess’ but now that it’s before him, I believe he is researching everything possible. I’m not saying that there is case law supporting the defense position, I was just trying to point out that I don”t believe he will rule in favor of the defense just because it would be easier. I’m waiting just like everyone else to see what Judge Perry will do.
I agree that if she had done any of those things you mentioned while she was in protective custody, then maybe it would demonstrate that she was trying to prove herself. She definately didn’t have access to anyone’s checks or credit cards while in custody or anywhere to use them even if she did.
Kim-I agree that the law has to be researched relative to what the defense is saying (and not saying)about “time served” or the possibility that she could go on probation for a “second time” to suffer the pain and agony of pretending she can do as she is told. I think the laws governing probation (a conditional suspended sentence) are clear about how, when and where one “serves their time” outside of the confines of a jail or prison. You are right, Judge Perry doesn’t take the easy way out or he would have simply recused himself. Instead he will take the time and effort to decide if a clerical error trumps the law.
I heard earlier this evening that Ms Anthony was staying at a mansion with two bodyguards. I wondered outloud why she needed two guys and the brains of the family shouted from across the deck, “Because one of the guys is afraid to be alone with her”!
If all the court does is follow the law, then what do we need a judge for? Can’t we write a computer program to do it for us? I think you mean the court is there to interpret the law. I think he will rule to try to satisfy the public which has nothing to do with the law. If the court is being honest about trying to follow the law, then there is no need for her to serve probation in the State of Florida. It would appear that they are out to get her. The compromise is to have her serve outside of Florida. IMO
Casey served her probation already. The probation officer stated that in court on Friday. She got a letter from the DoC saying she completed her probation. It is done. If she violated her probation while in jail you can be sure they would have thrown the book at her.
Now, this article discusses technical wiggling to CHEAT Casey out of the probation she already served. Is that what our justice system has become? A shell game to cheat people who have served a sentence into serving it twice? Or is this case a Vendetta which apparently makes cheating by the court OK?
TJ-Circular reasoning “is an attempt to support a statement by simply repeating the statement in different or stronger terms or maybe just addin’ a little Latin now and then. That’s all Judge Strickland did. He didn’t say something in January 2010 that he could not support in August 2011. Read the blog article and you’ll realize that the laws prevail no matter how biased the trier or finder of fact feels. Ya can cheat, engage in shell games with Vendetta and her crowd but at the end of the day she gotta shut up and take your medicine. There is an expectation of recovery but not a cure.
Good Evening Atty Hornsby: Do you think the Federal Petitions to Prosecute will go anywhere? If they do is there a Statute of Limitations? Thank-you in advance for a reply.
Nope.
The way I read most of these comments, here and other sites, the people making them have seem to have no experience with the legal system. They believe that these things are somehow the way they believe they should be rather than how things really are.The police and courts do not operate as seen on tv or in movies, at least not most that I’ve seen with a few exceptions that are closer to truth than others.
You folks should spend some time sitting in different courtrooms and watch the proceedings from beginning to end. You would find that while some things may have gone abnormally with Casey Anthony by and large it is just the way the system works. More often than not, in my opinion, you would find that when the justice system goes astray the prosecution is the benificiary rather than the defendant. That is not to say that majority of people who find themselves on trial don’t deserve to be there but many a mistake has been made too.
I think we should be far more interested in doing something to help the innocence projects rather than wasting so much worrying about how Casey Anthony got away with something. Helping to release a innocent person would be much more rewarding than beating the Casey got away with it deadhorse when not a thing can be done about that.
Absent all of this media coverage everyone would have already moved on if they had even heard of it in the first place. I can think of many similar situations (at least as far as dead or missing kids and possible or probable or proven parental involvement) but these stories were not picked up and so heavily saturated in the media.
Personally, I think she got away with it. The probation issue I can see both ways, it makes sense she serve it as Strickland clearly orated after her release from jail whatever the outcome of her at the time upcoming trial. On the other hand even if by a clerical error she has served it albeit while in protective custody where she was unlikely to be able to violate it as she may have in the community, I can see the argument that it has been served and here is the release letter to prove it. In the end if Perry tries to strike a balance between all of this and the potential threat to her safety, and apparently he believes it exsists, then he may settle for the administrative probation as has been suggested. That type of probation in my opion would amount to probation in name only. It would seem she would have to pick up another charge to violate it as opposed to the more restrictive order that Strickland would like enforced which could much more easily be breached. I assume such a breach could lead to an appearance in court and the possibility of being sentenced for the charges that Strickland withheld adjudication on. (Is that correct Mr. Hornsby?)
I think it might be better at this point to let the whole sad thing fade away, might be the best thing in the larger public interest. If she gets probation gets hung up on it and goes back to jail it sure wouldn’t keep me up at night. If it turns out to be one of the other options that isn’t going to keep me up either.
Amen
HAPPY BIRTDAY CAYLEE~!
Only in America can a scumbag family, their daughter, & her scum sucking Defense Team ALL make money off your MURDER & claim it is JUSTICE! They even imagine themselves as celebrities, you are SUPPORTING everyone involved in your case from the Defense side.
Most understand the case, most understood OJ’s, this case is an embarassment to the Judicial System & the 12 pin heads from Pinellas.
Sure, blame the Jury. Majority opinionators always shoot the messenger. Did you watch the trial? There was no proof. Those people did their civic duty and followed the courts instructions. Calling them names is weak, but hey, I know that happens around here.
NTS-Why blame the jury? For what? They acquitted her of Felony Murder and all the lesser included charges. What’s to be sad about NTS! The message was sent loud and clear without a shot being fired. The only one who did anything wrong was Ms Anthony and she walks free. The jurors didn’t read the thousand pages of jury instructions and they didn’t deliberate for any more than 4 hours.
You and your friends over at the JBMission were burning candles all over the country and praying together. Y’all were “joyfully alive” the moment you got over the shock of the verdict. The firecrackers went off and the dancin was commenced – that bluegrass music could be heard for miles.
After three years of slamming everyone who walked in and out of the Anthony home on July 16, 2008 and berating CSI, the FBI and everyone else who walked in and out of the crime scene you were absolutely beside yourselves with the long awaited “cred”. But at the end of the day it was all about making that connection with Casey. You threw Caylee in the trunk over and over again. The hate runneth over day in and day out. You have no shame.
I believe Justice was served. Thats about it. I do not celebrate unfair trials….
right on – it was what is known as a “right verdict” The jury’s verdict matched the evidence.
Whether any of us think she did it is immaterial. There were 12 people that listened to all of the evidence without the involvement of the media, protesters and morons. As a group they gave the right verdict based upon that evidence.
Anyone who thinks they would do it differently is fooling themselves.
This is the moment when someone walks in and starts talking about the Innocence Project and how everyone should move on, stop talking about the case. Go out and help find other missing children.
well I disagree..because IMO we saw you on camera doing just that! Smile..the camera is watching and you know you love it!
I for one, do find fault with the jury verdict on the manslaughter and aggravated child abuse…and that is my right, just as it’s your right to support it. Not one of you over at JBM have given any reasonable explanation for a mother not reporting her child “missing”, possibly dead, or any other scenerio where the child has not been with the mother or by anyone for 31 days. And throwing in witnesses stating she appeared to be a good mother, goes against everything a good mother would do.
In my opinion, Baez’s story was not more reasonable that the state’s. Why? Because people don’t dump their child’s body in the woods after a drowning and then say it was because of sexual abuse that there was absolutely no proof of. But a person would dump a child’s body in the woods after negligent homicide or pre-meditated murder.
If Casey murdered the child, then that would be a very plausible reason she would not report it.
Any other scenerio you argue, does not release her from manslaughter or neglect. You want to argue what could she do for a “dead” child. No one knows at what moment the child died, the child could have died in the plastic bag. The child was not legally and officially declared dead until her remains where identified. Even not knowing the how,when,where, or if the child was dead at the time of the incident, it is a certainty that a child placed in a tied plastic bag will ultimately die.
Casey never has and never will have the legally authority to declare anyone dead, neither can anyone else in her family nor her friends. Because Caylee was not legally declared dead until almost 6 months later, that leaves the very real possibility that the child was not dead, but unresponsive, at the time of what ever scenerio you or the defense want to argue, which seems to be the drowning scenerio. The child deserved the presumption of life over the assumption of death, until a legal authority could certify death and issue a death certificate.
The jury had argued over who the caretaker was, it would not matter who was physically watching her. Once the mother(legal uncontested guardian) found out any type of harm may have befallen the child, she is obligated to seek assistance otherwise it is negligent. Negligence is a failure to exercise the care that a reasonably person would exercise in like circumstances. Casey was not found to have any mental health problems or defect and she does not have a low IQ. It doesn’t matter who is or isn’t watching the child, the mother is still the final caretaker. If a child becomes sick,injured, kidnapped in the care of a babysitter and the babysitter informs you, it is the parent’s responsibility to get that child medical care or assistance especially if no one else has done so. A parent’s obligations as “caretaker” of a minor child is never relinquished unless legally done so by the courts.
If the jury, as the foreman stated, didn’t consider the sexual abuse because it wasn’t proven, then there is no “big” secret to hide to even use that as an excuse for why she wouldn’t report it. If any of the jurors did consider it(which would be against court instructions) and felt George was watching Caylee, then Casey would still be negligent for leaving her child with a sexual preditor as well as being negligent for believing whatever they thought her father had told her concerning Caylee. One of the jurors who spoke out said they argued about the caretaker issue and if Casey came home and learned of “it”. That scenerio would still make Casey responsible because she can’t just take someone’s word that her child is dead and they took care of it, even if that person was her father.
There is no circumstance that would prevent Casey from reporting it other than her covering up a neglect or murder, unless Casey herself was kidnapped or in an non-funcional state. No one was holding her captive for the 31 days with a gun to her head and she was behaving normally according to everyone who testified. She was freely partying, living away from the family and “threat” of a father that you want to accuse, driving around as she pleased, getting her nails done, stealing checks, and getting a tatoo. She didn’t even pretend to have concern for her child when she called home from jail, she only wanted her boyfriend’s phone #, everything else was a hugh waste because they were only concerned about Caylee.
I accept that the jury’s verdict is final, but I will never accede.
Kimpossible-Excellent. I will just add three things.
1. We all know that Caylee never died in the pool.
2. But what we do know is that her airways were covered and that the possibility that she was buried alive in the trunk cannot be overlooked. It would have taken hours for her organs to fail-a very painful death.
Casey “promounced” her and at dusk on or about the 18-19 of July she threw her in the swamp.
3. If a morsel of truth ever were to come out about who “the real killer” is, I would’nt be surprised to hear that Casey brought her to people who had chorloform and perhaps Caylee was the one who suffered sexual abuse.
What NTS cannot understand is that the jurors found Casey Not Guilty-that’s not the same as innocent.
Paragraph 1 Yes it was explained by the DT. Her excuse for not calling 911 is that she was following her Fathers script or doing what she was told to do and not do. That is the explanation. Sorry you missed it in the past.
Baez story was better and more believalble than the state. Why? Well your reason is that people don’t dump bodies in the woods. Well yes they do and it happens all the time. Now you assume that Kc did that, but there is no proof whatsoever that kc had anything whatsoever to do with disposal of the remains. I think you assume that Kc disposed of the body and that is how you came to those conclusions. Just keep in mind, there is no evidence to prove that or even suggest it. The trunk theory was never proven either. As a matter of fact, the trunk theory was disproven imo due to the lack of evidence.
Paragraph 2. Well you said it. No one really knows and that equals reasonable doubt, so no, no neglect. The Dt told you how she died, she drowned. That is believable. You say the child could have died in a plastic bag, and no one knows the exact second of death. Exactly…. That is the point. No one knows. The State did a poor job of giving us details of June 16th. We do not even know if Kc was home. Everyone is relying on GA testimony. Well I for one can not do that. Any reasonable jury is going to disregaurd GA testimony. So, therefore there is no evidence of June 16 other than the cell pings from kc’s cell phone. How do you convict someone of manslaughter if don’t even know if she was home when the incident happened? I do agree that 911 should have been called, but her father was her authority. The jury accepted that. I accept it as well. It is not neglegence if the child is dead already. The state did not prove time of death, where of death, when of death, how of death. I think I have read this post before. This is like what comes first the chicken or the egg. You are looking for a technicality that just isn’t there. The circumstance is there for her to not report. Her Father told her what to do. The jury believed it. Certainly there are people that follow the rules of their abuser in this country. It is not far fetched or even a stretch. You are looking for some type of technicality that the jurors did not do their job. You are not finding it. They are allowed to consider the defense theory. I think I have seen this post on several blogs. sorry to rave on.
NTS,
Just like you to take bits and pieces out of context, instead of looking at the entire picture. I didn’t say people don’t dump bodies in the woods. I said people don’t dump their child’s body in the woods after a drowning. Nor even a grandparent for that matter. When does that happen all the time? Name any documented instance involving an accident that this has ever occured?
What instances are children’s bodies dumped in the woods or dumpsters? When they are murdered, impulse killings, and manslaughter caused by abuse or neglect. You are also assuming that George disposed of the body. Absolutely no evidence only Baez saying so, making the story more rediculous by throwing in the part involving Kronk somehow finding the body and holding on to it.
Casey’s father was not her authority…Casey was a 22 year old ADULT, mooching off of her parents.
Part of the state’s evidence Relied on Casey’s own statements that she was the last person with Caylee (to 911 operator, handwriten statement, police interviews, and jail house interviews). Since you want to keep relying on Baez’s opening statement which is not evidence, go back and listen to it again…he places Casey there. Then he gives his scenerio to the grief counselor, placing Casey there again. NOTHING presented in court to refute that fact by either the state or the defense.
No, I am not looking for a technicality. You nor anyone else knows if that child was actually dead at the time of the incident, which is exactly why parents call 911 or drive their kids to the hospital, no matter how bad the accident appears. That is what any reasonable person would do. Negligence is anything other that what a reasonable person would do under the same circumstances. That is why the defense’s scenerio is beyond reason. So who declared Caylee legally dead at that point in time? Who certified Caylee’s death before she ended up in plastic bags? Casey’s not a doctor, and in your scenerio, George is not a doctor. Casey doing nothing is neglect.
Yes the jury can consider the defense theory, but they have to look at all the circumstances/evidence and weigh as on a scale, reasonable versus unreasonable. Presuming the child dead before putting in plastic bags is negligence. Presuming the child dead because someone told her is negligence. You keep throwing in George as Casey’s abuser, absolutely no evidence of that and the jury was told to disregard. If they considered it, then they were not following the law. If her father was in such control over her, he would not even let her out of his sight, running around unsupervised in Orlando possibly running her mouth to anyone who would listen.
Reasonable doubt doesn’t mean beyond all doubt. No one is ever 100% sure of what happened in any homicide case, unless the murder was possibly videotaped.
Kimpossible, IMO it is pointless to try and have a logical debate with NTS. This person wants you to believe Baez’ opening statements as fact. Even if you do, NTS then only wants you to believe bits and pieces that fit into whatever off the wall scenario he/she is trying to explain. NTS wants you to believe Baez drowning theory but then ignore the rest of the story that Casey was there and saw George holding a lifeless Caylee. Here are some of NTS quotes taken from his 8/10 post.
“The Dt told you how she died, she drowned. That is believable.”
“How do you convict someone of manslaughter if don’t even know if she was home when the incident happened?”
“Yes it was explained by the DT. Her excuse for not calling 911 is that she was following her Fathers script or doing what she was told to do and not do. That is the explanation.”
“We do not even know if Kc was home.”
And here are two quotes taken from NTS comments with the last being my all-time fave!
“Well your reason is that people don’t dump bodies in the woods. Well yes they do and it happens all the time.”
“She may have wanted to scream the truth, but the system wouldn’t allow it.”
Bravo kim. Agree with everything u said. I wouldnt waste much more energy responding to nts. Its like talking to a wall. A little like the state presenting logical evidence of guilt to a jury of morons.
shut up fart tart. Haven’t you got your DVR full of Nancy Grace to watch?
Art Tart-Had she lived we know how she would be spending her day. Right about now she would be welcoming all her K friends into the house to throw down their gifts and jump into the pool. Cindy and George would have the music blaring and the cake ablaze for that very special moment when they would all join in singing Happy Birthday.
The Irish say no one really dies unless they are forgotten. I’ll always remember you Caylee. God Bless your heart and soul.
There you go pretending that you know what she would be doing right now. You don’t know, for all you know, she could be suffering sex abuse. You just don’t know, but yet you pretend you do. go figure.
nothatsmart, are you suggesting at the hands of Jo Jo? Just another ridiculous comment from someone that deservedly has the name: NOT THAT SMART! Yes indeed, the irony is rich, you aren’t that smart!
No, I am suggesting that the rude Anonymous poster has no idea what she would be doing. Are you here to defend him and his rude behavior? I see you are also rude with your childish name calling, but like I said, that is accepted around here. I will not get involved in name calling, so go at it. I will take note.
nothatsmart, I’m not defending anyone except myself, I usually skip any comments you make as you seem to bicker on every blog you visit, your comment is ridiculous, hence your name, Notthatsmart, & since your taking notes, write this down, NOBODY CARES~!
Art tart posted Birthday wishes for Caylee. Leave her alone and stop picking a fight with everyone. Not to worry once I post this message I give you my word of honor I’m gone.
Humm. The balloon send off is a good indication of what Caylee would have been doing on her birthday. Celebrating with her grandmother and her Joe-Joe. God only knows, though, if Casey would have bothered to show up. Maybe. Maybe not.
Autumn-She will never be able to completely rid herself of Caylee. There will be a Memorial built and it will be a living reminder of what she did. She will laugh at all those people who never knew but loved Caylee. Can’t you just hear her say, “Those people need to get a life.”
https://www.today.com/news/casey-anthony-named-most-hated-person-us-wbna44090479
Art tart-“Creepy” is what I have always felt about her-the audacity she had to laugh and joke around with her lawyers, et al while facing charges of murder. I also was frieghtened at her outburst in the courtroom when she attempted to confront Ms Burdick. Just imagine how she tormented her parents. I know they made mistakes and their behavior was almost unforgiveable but I can’t criticize them until after I’m canonized.
If I had to raise Casey I would have asked to be adopted, kidnapped or I would have just left home with $50.00 and hoped for the best.
DCF: Casey ‘Failed To Protect’ Caylee! (PDF)
http://www.wesh.com/r/28835052/detail.html
Why did DCF even bother? 3 years to investigate and release a report? No wonder children services all across the country need restructuring.
I guess there is a misunderstanding when I say we don’t even know if she was home when the incident happened. I don’t think we do. JB explained that Ga stood there with Caylee’s lifeless body in his arms. That does kind of sound like she was home, but maybe not. We really don’t know when the incident of death happened, so therefore, we do not know if Kc was home when it happened. Ga standing there with a lifeless body, does not tell us when the incident happened. For all we know, Kc could have been around the corner getting gas. If the state would have thoroughly investigated, then perhaps we would have some answers. IMO
Look carefully at Casey Anthony’s phone records. Here’s my take: on the 15th she was up late texting Tony Lazzaro. At some point in the early hours of the 16th he finally convinces her to come to his apartment where she remains until her wake up call from Cindy Anthony from the home phone who was on her way out to work around 7:30 a.m. I’m guessing it was an unpleasant call or message. Everything from that point on is confused. I propose Casey came home at some point late that morning or early afternoon and learned that the baby had accidentally died. When Cindy left for work she left Caylee in George Anthony’s care. His uncanny memory of that day supports his knowledge that June 16th was a day to remember. For reasons only he knows the decision was made to cover things up rather than alert the sheriff’s office. George sends Casey away warning her to act like everything is normal. She leaves but stays near her home waiting for George to leave. The body of the little girl was disposed of by the grandfather and Casey Anthony never knew where she was or how she was left in the woods until she was found months later. Her ability to create a fantasy world allowed her to cope–though poorly–with the trauma of her daughter’s death.
Add to all of this an inept investigation, prolific Anthony liars–a poster family for dysfunction–and television news channels hungry for tabloid sensationalism and you have all you need to understand this weird case. It’s an interesting set of events. It’s no where near as interesting and bizarre however as the community’s reaction and the obsession of media and legal professionals. I include myself here. I’ve been just as hooked as the next guy.
and because JB *explained* some convoluted story it’s true? Now THAT’S funny! Oh my, the irony is rich indeed..JB, like Casey wouldn’t know the truth if it smacked him in the face..JB used the best LIE that he and Casey could come up with..without one shred of proof to back it up..I can’t believe you even had the nerve to type such garbage!
I thought Baez said in his OS that he & Casey realized that they weren’t sure where Caylee was, so they started looking in all of the closets, under the beds, etc. (IMO, if a home has a pool, that’s the FIRST place you’d look!), then went outside to look- George going around the house to one side & Casey to the other. She then “came upon” George holding Caylee in his arms, apparently dead. So, just from that part of the trial I think it’s obvious Casey was home. I don’t buy for a minute that she was “around the corner getting gas.”
My post above was supposed to be a reply to NTS back a few pages…
Dcf just selectively took documents out of context and speculated their own conclusion. It was all out of context and there were many mistruths in the statement. I hope she sues them.
ps: note: Ga got out of the interview. no kidding , Mr finger pointer knew better.
nts..you state that as fact so for once in your blog hopping legal career back it up…I know you won’t cause you can’t..Now JB might know ..nah, wth was there to take out of context anyway..Your daughter is missing for 31 days..and even by yours..I mean JB’s opening LIE of accidental drowning…by not reporting it, that’s all DCF needed..THAT’S why I don’t understand what took them 3 years..I know..it was all a conspiracy right? R Kronk, George, LE, DCF, et al… ALL had it out for Casey Anthony..I wonder sometimes if you even know or care how ridiculous you sound..
add a moo to my last comment
NTS
Did you miss the rest of it?
“Well, the answer is actually relatively simple. She never was missing. Caylee Anthony died on June 16, 2008, when she drowned in her family`s swimming pool. As soon as Casey came around this corner and went back, she saw George Anthony holding Caylee in his arms. She immediately grabbed Caylee and began to cry. And cry. And cry. ”
“And shortly thereafter, George began to yell at her, “Look what you`ve done. Your mother will never forgive you, and you will go to jail for child neglect for the rest of your frickin` life.” “
KC TO SERVE ONE YEAR PROBATION!
snip:
“It is very clear that the Defendant and her attorney knew she was to start her probation upon release from the Orange County Jail. Despite this fact, they took advantage of a scrivener’s error which started the probation while she was being held in the jail pending trial,” he wrote.
Read more: http://www.wesh.com/casey-anthony-extended-coverage/28838309/detail.html#ixzz1Upsn8o7e
Richard, I mentioned to you that Baez with held this information from the STATE/Courts & your response was that “the defense wasn’t obligated to share this.” It wasn’t LOST ON JUDGE PERRY, Baez will continue to be a Bottom Feeder & his client better get off her ass & get a job!
Any bleeding hearts want to hire KC to baby sit your kids?
The PDF:
http://www.wesh.com/pdf/28848066/detail.html
I will have to respectively disagree with Judge Perry on the particular point; what I think he was trying to say, is that defense can’t claim ignorance of a lawful order as justification for calling Judge Strickland stupid or his order a fraud.
Richard, I agree with your point as you are stating it now, you said the Defense had “NO OBLIGATION to inform the Courts,” that I disagreed with & still do. The good thing is that the Defense will not benefit from withholding the information.
Richard, imo, it’s disgraceful to see Mason flip off the media, he seems unstable, a bully, a blow hard , it’s disgraceful to hear Mason/Baez speak so disrespectfully about Judge S, but yet Baez wants the public to “RESPECT the verdict.” He remains clueless, NO ONE ever forgot what OJ did nor will 2/3 of the American public that think KC got ajway murder ever forget. It’s just a miserable case that isn’t going away.
Great call Richard. I was hoping Judge Perry would see your post. How did you get so smart? 🙂 Now my question is… will this order be attached to a Bar complaint? Isn’t the Judge (or any other lawyer) required to report misconduct?
Judge Perry will be overturned after all it seems in FL v. Casey Anthony–an error of law and of due process.
Rumor has it that certain people will not be letting Cheney Mason’s comments about Judge Strickland go lightly.
Richard, that’s great, I just bitched about this upthread! Thanks for addressing this!
I can’t find that link. What did he say and when? What news station? thanks
Oh my! I’ve just read the entire order. I wasn’t sure Judge Perry could top his performance as a black-robed state prosecutor during the murder trial but he has. I hope less biased legal minds prevail when this is heard on appeal. Like it or not–scrivener’s error or no–Casey Anthony was released from probation by the the Department of Corrections. There is no question as to whether or not she met the DOC’s requirements while awaiting her trial. Case law referenced by Judge Perry justifying his order attempts to–once again–fit square pegs into round holes. His arguments are valid only if Casey Anthony was serving a sentence and not awaiting trial as an accused citizen. He may not like Casey Anthony or Jose Baez but he has an obligation to apply the law fairly. That’s not the case here.
He’s been overturned many times in the past for issues large and small. I suppose one more isn’t much to him personally in order to demonstrate “to the public” that he wanted Ms. Anthony convicted too.
Hey ron, might I suggest that u and notthatsmart join together in some sort of fantasy homicide league. Think of all the delusional fun u can have together!!!!
Sorry Kcrn but I’d rather not join your league. Another name for it might the “Pots Who Call the Kettles Black” league…and your in the running for president.
Ron P said:
He’s been overturned many times in the past for issues large and small. I suppose one more isn’t much to him personally in order to demonstrate “to the public” that he wanted Ms. Anthony convicted too.
_______________
Ron P, better check your facts, Judge Perry is RARELY overturned on appeal, your statement is inaccurate & perhaps you might want to back up your opinion w/facts & cases! (no one is holding their breath for you to produce this!) Your assumption of what Judge Perry wanted is laughable, you have NO IDEA what Judge P wanted, it is apparent what you wanted so you are just projecting!
Guess this really crimps Baez in staging photos, lol, now her pictures will appear everywhere, unfortuately, but at least no profit to Baez or KC.
Hi Tart!
Read ’em and weep:
1. Palmer v State – Sentence Vacated
2. Fisher v State – Reversed
3. Maynard v State – Sentence Quashed
4. Glidewell v State – Reversed
5. Nat Weaver Inc v Fencl – Reversed
6. Messam v State – Sentence Vacated
7. Horn v State – Sentence Vacated
8. Henderson v State – Remanded
9. Frattallone v State – Reversed
10. Satalino v State – Reversed
11. Green v State – Sentence Vacated
12. Carter v State part 1 – Reversed
13. Hamilton v State – Sentence Vacated
14. Tinsley v State – Remanded
15. Carter v State part 2- Sentence Quashed
16. White v State – Sentence Vacated
17. Bell v Perry – Writ of Mandamus
18. Ferguson v State – Reversed
19. Sirmons v State – Sentence Vacated
20. Girard v State – Sentence Reversed
21. Brown v State part 1 – Sentence Vacated
22. M. Carter v State – Sentence Vacated
23. Brown v State part 2 – Imposition of Costs Stricken
24. Operadora Seryna v Banco Bilboa Viscaya-Mexico – Reversed
25. Johnson v State – Reversed in Part
26. Pender v State – Reversed
27. Harden v State – Remanded
28. K. Smith v State – Reversed
29. Bacon v State – Sentence Vacated
30. Combs v State – Vacated
31. Williams v King – Reversed in Part
32. Bolger v State – Reversed
33. J. Smith v State – Reversed in Part
34. Andzulis v Montgomery Road Acquisitions – Reversed
35. Fowler v State – Reversed
36. McGee v State – Sentence Vacated
37. CED Construction v Kaiser-Taulbee Associates – Reversed
38. Marino v State – Sentence Stricken
39. Allen v State – Reversed
40. State v Houck – Remanded
41. State v Ducharme – Reversed
42. Barley v Alberini – Reversed
43. Hall v State – Reversed
44. State v Thomas – Reversed
45. State v Ford and Nguyen – Quashed
46. Young v State – Reversed
47. Lebron v State – Death Sentence Vacated Twice
48. State v R. Jones – Reversed
49. Blandon v State – Reversed in Part
50. Armstrong v State – Reversed
Is 50 enough for you Tart? Of the first 135 appeals where Belvin Perry was the judge, 50 demonstrate errors in his–ahem–judgement. There’s lots more.
And I’m not assuming that Judge Perry intended his latest order to satisfy the public. He states that directly in the text of the order itself.
I’m not sure you know the meaning of psychological projection based on your reply but it would do you some good to learn. While looking it up you should also check out “witch hunt” “moral panic” “mass hysteria” and “lynching.”
Ron, over how many years & how many trials did Judge Perry preside over? Judge Perry was again elected CHIEF JUDGE, Bill Sheaffer said today that “Judge Perry is rarely overturned & he didn’t expect this to be overturned.” Brad Conway said “this wouldn’t be overturned,” so it appears KC is just like everybody else, Judge Strickland was clear on what he wanted, SUCK IT UP & quit whining, just see what happens as opposed to arguing about it, it doesn’t change anything.
KC, just a high school drop out, has nothing better to do with her life, I find it funny she now has to get a job even though she wouldn’t work to support her daughter, she supported herself by stealing, she now has to get off her ass, guess this makes for more LONG DAYS at Baez’s office, lol! Yep, KC the cash cow is now the albatross around his neck!
yep, bet GA/CA would give KC the Sunfire back so she has wheels to get to & from Baez’s office, creepy~!
Hello Ah-Ha!
The dependence on local news personalities and the self-proclaimed “legal experts” they employ/sleep with goes a long way toward explaining many of the views I read on this site. But not all of the ignorance can be blamed on television. There’s plenty of poor thinking involved too. Judge Perry as “Chief Judge” is an active judge but hears significantly fewer cases than other judges on the 9th Circuit criminal bench. His role is chiefly (pardon the pun) administrative. Spending the last 14 of 16 years as Chief Judge for the 9th Circuit may lead you to believe he is some sort of legal scholar and that may be the case on a multi-judge panel, but not at the circuit level. The opposite—he is not a great legal scholar—is more likely. Faced with questions requiring real legal scholarship, Belvin Perry is in way over his head. In his years off the administrative leash the appeals and reversals were frequent. The jury’s acquittal of Anthony on murder charges saved him from being called out on about a dozen reversible errors. I expect the sentences he handed down for lying to law enforcement will be successfully appealed along with this latest ruling on probation. Based on his handling of State v Anthony, criminal defendants in Orange and Osceola Counties can count themselves lucky that as “Chief Judge” Belvin Perry is unlikely to hear their cases.
By the way—just for fun—this is what a law school ranking service concluded about Judge Perry’s alma mater, “The city’s crime rates, the law school’s questionable employment prospects and undeniably dismal bar passage rates should all cause concern for prospective students.” Marshall Law School makes Jose Baez’s St. Thomas Law School look absolutely respectable and Richard Hornsby’s University of Florida Law School like the Ivy League by comparison.
I have to say that I don’t believe that the defense has any legal obligation to tell the state that the probation order was wrong. A signature means a lot to me. When you sign a piece of paper, you are agreeing to the terms of what is written on the paper, and hold your feet to the fire by whatever terms that are listed on that paper. I have no idea about all of this, but it would seem that the presiding judge in the case would have to sign off on the probation order before it is delivered to the defendant. This has nothing to do with Casey Anthony. This has everything to do with a Judge who stated one thing in his court – “once she is released from jail.”, but who signed something else. It is not the role of the defendant’s advisers to clarify an error that the State made.
So this is only probation. So what? This has nothing to do with the person. It has everything to do with due process of law, procedure and what happens when an order is not correctly executed? In this case, the written execution of the probation was executed properly. The probation that was written up was incorrect and inconsistent with the judge’s intent. However, that is not the defendant’s problem. That is the State of Florida’s problem. And this will set a bad precedent.
Ron P-Take a second look at the “evidence”. The “evidence” that Ms Anthony served her probation is just not there. It appeared on paper that DOC “released” her from probation but we know after the fact that the DOC was confused and that Mr Baez knew of the error and decided to say nothing. Mr Baez’ moral and ethical compass goes round and round on any given day.
Mistakes are made and thoughtful people make an effort to set the record straight. The square pegs and the round holes analogy does not “fit” here. It’s a lot more straightforward than you think.
Ron P-She was a convicted felon. The only biased mind “that prevails” is yours. The DOC was suppose to follow a court order and made a simple mistake by visiting her once, calling the jail to see if she was still there and sending her a “So long have a great life letter” which indicated that she finished probation. How could she complete the requirements of probation while incarcerated? If this is true how could the following be logical, “There is no question as to whether or not she met the DOC’s requirements while awaiting her trial”?
The court order was misinterpreted and for all intents and purposes Ms Anthony did not “meet the DOC’s requirements for probation.’ Read what those requirements are and then come back and tell us how biased Judge Perry is. Don’t slam a brilliant jurist just because you think you have a right to.
You see Anonymous, the DOC did follow the court order signed by Judge Strickland. It followed it to the letter actually. Re-creating exactly what happened–what this particular topic by Hornsby pretty methodically does–demonstrates that the state wanted to have its cake and eat it too. They wanted Casey Anthony to be a “convicted felon” in case she testified during her murder trial. They got that the convictions (she confessed) but how to punish? She couldn’t be sentenced to an indefinite period in the future and they didn’t go to the trouble to correctly toll her probation. They did nothing actually. The DOC did their job. It is nothing new for citizens awaiting trial on other charges to simultaneously serve probationary periods. Sometimes probationers await their trials in jail. Again that is not a novel idea. It happens all the time in fact. Of course it does. Despite how your “brilliant jurist” sees it, whether awaiting trial at home or incarcerated you are a presumed innocent until proven otherwise.
Let me pose this question to you. Could Casey Anthony have met what you believe to be the requirements which define probation while at home monitored with an ankle device? Isn’t that just a different sort of incarceration? What if she were watched around the clock by law enforcement? Wouldn’t that artificially keep her from the freedom assumed to exist in order for one to violate probation? The DOC is charged with determining whether or not a probationer is meeting their requirements. The DOC discharged her. Judge Strickland did not have jurisdiction and by extension, neither did Judge Perry.
At least Richard Hornsby provided a narrowly justifiable scenario for a toothless administrative probation. As I wrote earlier, I expect this will be overturned with little commentary from the appellate panel. It’s an embarrassment. Dispassionate legal minds see this for what it is: sour grapes and an abuse of power.
It certainly is not. Judge Strickland followed sentencing guidelines that are in place for all those who have been tried and found guilty, or confessed [to check fraud in this case]. The real problem existed relative to how Ms Anthony would serve her probation-after all she confessed and served time but was indicted on murder and awaiting trial. The probation would have to wait. No one standing before Judge Strickland believed for a moment that Ms Anthony would walk away a free woman in July 2011. Everyone thought it would be a good 35years (2035)at a minimum, when Ms Anthony would actually be eligible or available to serve her probation (css).
Mr Biaz told the judge his client would be exonerated or words to that effect while the discussion was going on relative to probation. I thought it was important to say and I was glad Mr Baez said it.
Why the uproar over a mandatory probation? She served three years in jail awaiting trial for check fraud and lying to police. Both judges (yes, brilliant jurists) were compassionate, fair and very egalitarian towards this defendant.
No one believed probation would ever be an issue but she walked on the murder charge and probation had to be dealt with “upon release”. Why should Ms Anthony be treated any differently than anyone else? If the requirements for probation can be successfully completed in jail than send her back to the Orange County jail. Read the requirements for probation. (you will notice Mr Baez did not want the judge to read them and he certainly wasn’t interested in reading them aloud in court last week).
Ms Anthony will not win her appeal. Mr Baez should move on to other clients and allow Ms Anthony to sink or swim. On second thought, she shouldn’t apply to be a lifeguard anywhere.
Okay, your blog entry makes a lot of sense now. When you hear about this case through the media, it is so biased and full of…well I just can’t trust what the talking heads are saying.
With that, I am so glad to have found your blog while reading about this probation thing. It makes a lot of sense to me now. Removing the individual person (in this case, Casey Anthony) out of it, with me being a libertarian, could this possibly be a legal slippery slope? The fact of his wording “Judicial Intent” which I find troublesome (not sure if he stated that specific phrase), it seems as the correct legal decision I guess, but I just don’t like this one bit.
I think Perry needs to make up his mind as to how he defines probation. First he says it’s purpose is rehabilitation. Then on page 9 he says, to not allow the judge to correct this clerical error, “…would clearly thwart society’s interest in extracting a full, fair and just punishment for a crime”.
Perry seems a little confused or perhaps is talking out both sides of his mouth. Is it to rehabilitate or to punish her? Then this…
“…This court is very mindful that it is a high probability that there are many that would like to see physical harm visited upon the defendant.
THEREFORE IT IS ORDERED AND ADJUDGED that the Emergency Motion to Quash, Vacate and Set Aside the Court’s order is DENIED.”
The only thing he was mindful enough to do to protect her from crazy lynch mobs is to say her address can be kept private. That doesn’t protect her walking into the office each month or anyplace else she has to go in order to REDO this probation. At the very least he could have given her permission up front to make arrangements long distance to have the probation transferred to a private location. That way she’d never have to step foot in Orlando again. I guess he wants to see her pretty face shining on Orlando.
Richard, IF KC has to GET A JOB, does this she is NOT indigent any more?
Depends on how much she makes at her job (and you know everyone in Orange County is just itching to hire her…paleeze).
Fla. Stat. ‘ 27.52 (5): Florida Statute Section 27.52 details on the determination of indigent status of litigants and on who is eligible to be declared indigent for costs.
(5) INDIGENT FOR COSTS. –A person who is eligible to be represented by a public defender under s. 27.51 but who is represented by private counsel not appointed by the court for a reasonable fee as approved by the court, on a pro bono basis, or who is proceeding pro se, may move the court for a determination that he or she is indigent for costs and eligible for the provision of due process services, as prescribed by ss. 29.006 and 29.007, funded by the state.
(a) The person must submit to the court:
1. The completed application prescribed in subsection (1).
2. In the case of a person represented by counsel, an affidavit attesting to the estimated amount of attorney’s fees and the source of payment for these fees.
(b) In reviewing the motion, the court shall consider:
1. Whether the applicant applied for a determination of indigent status under subsection (1) and the outcome of such application.
2. The extent to which the person’s income equals or exceeds the income criteria prescribed in subsection (2).
3. The additional factors prescribed in subsection (4).
4. Whether the applicant is proceeding pro se.
5. When the applicant retained private counsel.
6. The amount of any attorney’s fees and who is paying the fees.
(c) Based upon its review, the court shall make one of the following determinations:
1. The applicant is not indigent for costs.
2. The applicant is indigent for costs.
(d) The provision of due process services based upon a determination that a person is indigent for costs under this subsection must be effectuated pursuant to a court order, a copy of which the clerk shall provide to counsel representing the person, or to the person directly if he or she is proceeding pro se, for use in requesting payment of due process expenses through the Justice Administrative Commission. Private counsel representing a person declared indigent for costs shall execute the Justice Administrative Commission’s contract for counsel representing persons determined to be indigent for costs.
you can find this info at http://www.myfloridahouse.gov if you wanna read the whole explanation on how indigency is determined.
If past behavior is any indication of future behavior then she won’t have a problem finding a job. Now finding a real job that actually pays her might be a problem! I’m sure she still has access to her old boss’ email address at Universal and she could try contacting him. If that doesn’t pan out then she could grab her Universal ID and march down to her old office and network with all her old work colleagues. If nothing comes of those efforts she could always try getting her foot back in the door with Sports Authority. She also has the option of going into the child day care industry, since she has references (under oath even) that state she is an “amazing” mother.
Judge Perry in his ruling accuses Jb of hiding the ball. Hiding it? the ball was on national tv. sheesh.
All I have to say about the probation is it was a just call. Next the ones who should have to pay a lot of the costs of the trial IMO are the Anthonys. They lied, hid information, did away with evidence and collected blood money KNOWING that precious baby was dead. I have more compassion for KC than I do for that lying, thieving, grifter, carpetbagger family. I just wish she had followed through on her plan to kill when she looked up the way instead of letting them get to her to the point she killed the baby. They are the ones I blame for the baby’s death. Did they kill her directly? NO they killed her by proxy. The proxy being their daughter who saw no way out of her crazy situation. I personally hope they rot in hell for what they have done and lose every dime they have scammed from kind hearted people. I hope they live many years totally broke for what they have done.
omg.. notthatsmart..you never fail to crack me up…you really should make more of an attempt to disguise yourself or just be a man and come out as JB instead of hiding behind that stupid name all over the internet…Anyone can go on any of the sites you’ve been banned from and see that you even use the same phrases as your alter ego..Try websleuths for starters ..shoot I remember when you and Cindy aka, seagull found each other there and started your campaign..she at least edited just about every comment she made because she realized she was giving herself away..you just talked in circles as you still do..here and in court.. anybody can go there and read what I’m saying for themselves and I hope they do..don’t take my word for it..I wouldn’t ..I’m a skeptic by nature anyway..I just can’t sit on my hands while you try to bamboozle folks here and TRY to insult a REAL attorney’s intelligence..one that wins his cases based on evidence or lack thereof and skill..not one made up of fiction and baseless allegations..Your mother must be so proud! Give it up..just because you and seagull repeat the same BS over and over doesn’t make it any more true than the day you started it…but it is amusing.. moo, as well as many others although I speak only for myself..
Youaint’folloinnoboby, You aren’t fooling anybody either, except yourself. I have spoken to NTS via email and looked at the IP. No, he is not JB. That is silly. Seagull is not Cindy either. I’ve been accused of being someone or another too but I’ve even revealed my true identity. We are just people with the ability to see through smoke and mirrors, lies and false information labeled evidence. Our goal is real justice and truth and we are doing you a favor by having that goal. Justice for Casey is justice for all. You know, serving this probation twice is like something many of you may have experienced. Some banks hold checks deposited for an amount of time that is up to their discretion. If you bounce a check, deposit a check to keep it from bouncing again, they may charge you again anyway if they haven’t cleared and released that check you deposited to cover it. In fact, they might bounce it the first time even if you already had that check in their hands. Is it right that they charged you the NSF fee a 2nd time? Of course not. That is double jeopardy. You had already paid the fine and served the time before they refined you. You had the deposit slip to show you already served your probation. The deposit was large enough to cover the NSF fee and the amount overdrawn.
What is with the obsession of trying to reveal the identities of anyone who happens to point out facts others don’t want to see?
@ Anonymous says:
August 7, 2011 at 9:38 am
YAFN-You are incorrect. Mrs Anthony loved Caylee unconditionally. Notthatsmart has never discussed the victim and is steadfast in her conviction that a murder did not take place. She has been “sleuthing” for nearly three years and while engrossed in her efforts to “understand” what happened (to Casey) she neglected to take into consideration that the victim was meaningless to the defendant. Nothing this young mother did before, during or after the commission of the crime offends NTS.
huh? Not sure what your response has to do with anything I have said here and despite having read it several times I don’t even understand what you are saying ..First of all, I don’t doubt that Cindy loved Caylee..have never said differently..anywhere..I have said (although again not here).. that her desire to find the truth ended when she realized that Casey was responsible for Caylee’s death..which I believe was VERY early on..at which point any quest for justice for Caylee was gone and Cindy’s time was spent covering up for her daughter ..even going so far as to knowingly turn over the wrong hairbrush foe dna…Not sure if the ‘she’ you speak of, you mean Cindy or NTS..but IMO both have been *sleuthing* everyone EXCEPT Casey to find someone..anyone else to pin this on…I also believe that Cindy *understood* Casey all too well based on the comments she made to Casey’s friends…as far as the rest your comment, I’m not sure if you are serious or just being facetious ..but I know this.. EVERYTHING “this young mother did before, during or after the commission of the crime” offends the h@ll out of me….
YNFN-I was pointing out NTS reactions over the past three years relative to how she views the crime, the victim and the defendant. My response had nothing to do with anything you said. It just so happens that you and I agree on most everything.
Anon~I thought so but then couldn’t figure out the Cindy Anthony part..That’s why I kept re-reading your comment..because the last part seemed to go along with my thinking as well 🙂
..
YNFN-I probably was not as clear as you were relative to who could be a “minion” of Mr Baez. If NTS was advancing the defense theory she would have known that Mr and Mrs Anthony loved Caylee. Casey did not bond with this child and the record is clear that she was a troubled and disordered mother to Caylee. We know the defendant was a tyrant and a bully towards her parents; promiscuous and deceitful with friends and acquaintences; and someone who financed 31 days away from home stealing from her “bf” Amy H.
Caylee was not the focus of this trial and either was her death. Someohow Mr Baez had to diminish or somehow downplay the death as simply being nothing more than a drowning – something that happens every day in Florida and just so happens to be the major cause of most accidental deaths in toddlers.
Once it was understood by jurors that the death of Caylee was nothing more than a death that went unreported they were willing to convict her of lying about it. Like I said nothing this defendant did before, during or after the commission of the crime offended jurors or notthatsmart.
When Ms Anthony gets a probation violation NTS will come to her rescue and true to form will blame someone else. She is nothing if not predictable.
I see anon..and I do agree with you..just makes me so sad to see this precious childs death be made a mockery of by some..I’ll never understand it..and I’m glad that my mind doesn’t work that way..
ZubenElSchemali..Oh my..sounds like I got a little too too close for comfort to suit you..last time I checked 2 posts don’t equal an obsession..just don’t like seeing people being bamboozled, that’s all..I don’t care if you or anyone else believes me…although there are MANY that believe the same…as I said, they can see for themselves..I would never ask someone to believe me just because I say so, as you are doing..You have a right to your opinion..as do I ..as does everyone else..and IMO, your abilities to see through smoke and mirrors is sorely lacking IF that’s what you really think..Have a good day now, you hear 😉
Justice for Caylee is MY priority and concern..Remember her?..Casey can rot…just like she let her daughter do..
YAFN-Your heart, soul and mind have always been in the right place when you discuss this case. Your values and your compassion for this little victim does not go unnoticed by me and others. We all know that this case was not one which protected only Ms Anthony’s constitutional rights but a way in which all participants could learn the truth. Jurors were asked to look and listen to the evidence presented from both sides-not with a jaundiced eye towards the prosecutors or the defendant. Behind closed doors jurors were required to evaluate the evidence by being guided by the rule of law and their own common sense. Presented with evidence that was in contradiction to the facts they exonerated Ms Anthony. We cannot do one single thing but accept their decision. If this was a good faith look at the evidence than they should not feel a pang of agony or regret when she reoffends.
If Caylee’s remains were never found would jurors have believed Caylee drowned in the pool? That’s the question they failed to ask one another.
Anon, I’m just now seeing this and I appreciate every word..truly I do..I have come to accept the juries decision..I don’t like it but I respect the task they had and as you stated… ..”If this was a good faith look at the evidence than they should not feel a pang of agony or regret when she reoffends.”….I feel the same way..They did not hear much of what we did due to the fact that the Anthony’s were not forthcoming with much of what they knew about Casey and her character..therefore so many things could not be introduced as evidence..There are a couple things among several that bother me about their decision tho….
(1) That JB was allowed in his opening statements to put forth the most ridiculous defense that was nothing but fabrication and present it as fact without a shred of evidence to back it up and the jury seems to have bought his outlandish fabrication, hook, line and sinker..despite the fact that Judge Perry advised them NOT to..when no evidence whatsoever was produced to back up that boldface lie, the jury apparently believed it anyway. They saw George as combative..when we know that was due to the fact that he already knew this ridiculous defense was coming and no doubt was furious at JB for telling such a horrific lie ..Who wouldn’t be pizzed..but the jury wasn’t aware of the history between the two and read him a different way..Once JB opened with his and Casey’s fabrication..obviously not knowing whether Casey would testify to the fabrication Judge Perry couldn’t stop him..and JB with his slimy, sleazy ethics knew that …
(2) That at least a couple of the jurors seemed to suggest that the DP was of concern to them..when they were instructed not to consider punishment in this phase and they did anyway..I truly believe that if the DP had not been put back on the table Casey would have been convicted..but still they shouldn’t have even been considering that during this time..
I also can’t help but wonder as hard as it would have been on Shirley P to testify..why she wasn’t called and why her emails to her sister couldn’t come into evidence..Maybe Richard can help with that one ..In those emails before Caylee was ever reported missing by Cindy..Shirley was already speculating in those emails about whether Casey had harmed Caylee..she KNEW something wasn’t right..but to suspect that her own granddaughter may have harmed Caylee before July 15th..that speaks volumes to me..
Also, it was plainly obvious that Casey wasn’t afraid of George..or Cindy for that matter in her phone calls and jail visits..if anything it was the other way around..Common sense dictates to me that Casey Anthony doesn’t have it in her to protect anyone but herself..IF an accidental drowning had occurred as Jose suggested or if George had molested Casey..she would have been shouting it from the rooftops..Someone that has been so abused by a parent to the point that they would lie for them (either one) does not repeatedly steal large amounts of money from them over and over again..they just don’t..and she never suffered any consequences..so what was there to be afraid of? I truly believe that she wanted one more day because she knew that if she could spin some convoluted story to Cindy..as much as Cindy may have loved Caylee, we would not be talking about it now.. she could convince Cindy of anything..so we are to believe that the ONE thing Cindy didn’t buy when Casey told her was when Casey told her of the *molestation* ..that’s such hogwash..Lastly if George had had anything to do with Caylee’s death or disposal..we are to believe also that a man who buried his pets with such loving care..threw his beloved granddaughter in the swamp like trash..That’s just too ridiculous to even consider!
Although I absolutely don’t believe George played any part in Caylee’s death and/or disposal.. I do wonder if he actually saw Casey and Caylee on the morning of June 16th..always thought that Casey and Caylee were already gone that morning (maybe Caylee was already deceased) and George (or Cindy) tried to call her ..hence the 7:30 phone call from the Anthony house to Casey’s cell…then when July rolled around and they picked up the car and by their own admission walked around the backyard and noticed the disturbed dirt…and wondered to themselves about Caylee drowning..if they decided right then and there that they had to give her an alibi for that morning because something had happened and they just didn’t know what… and once they did..they couldn’t take it back..or should I say wouldn’t..Now, that’s total speculation on my part..but this is a family of liars…and as we have seen over and over again..one lie leads to the next..to the next…
Last but not least I wish some of these Casey defenders could produce one case..just one..where a beloved child who died of an accidental drowning and 911 was not called…they won’t because they can’t..and then to add insult to injury..that anyone would go on to then toss the beloved child who *accidentally drowned* even if it was by negligence out into a swamp like trash..or anywhere for that matter..that’s just utter crap..for anyone who believes that I sure hope they don’t have children or Lord please save those kids from their parents because they are in danger…
So as far as I’m concerned for anyone that claims to know so much about the case..and was privy to everything that we did not hear in court..yet know to be true and still believe that poor widdle Casey is a victim..I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale at a super discounted price and I wonder if they’re interested?
YAFN,
Nice post. Very well said. I completely agree.
I would add one small tid-bit to your next to last paragraph. Given the fact the defense used the accidental drowning defense. If that is true, who would sit in jail with a first degree murder charge and possible death sentence and never once in 3 years mention accident? Even when her folks opened the door for her in one of the taped visits.
YNFN-As disheartening as this case was for us just imagine the tailspin both Mr and Mrs Anthony are in. They were tortured for years and covered it up and engaged in the most appalling behavior after the fact. They were in complete and utter disbelief and shock. They did this because they knew Casey killed Caylee. They never discounted the smell of decomposition nor did the first responders. In August they were almost giddy with joy “that Caylee wasn’t charged with murder” (see interview with Greta von susteran August 2008).
It is one thing to say there wasn’t sufficient evidence to convict but it is certainly another to say the defendant is a paragon of purity and virtue. That’s what makes me want to barf in my shoes.
Your post, YNFN, was excellent. Paragraph 2: George had absolutely nothing to do with the crime because he was at work when “Caylee drowned”. Casey Anthony makes high marks on Hare’s psychopathy Check List.
Foolin, justice for Caylee should include the state and ME investigating all possible causes of death, not just looking for a way to call it a homicide. From what I understand, a simple test of the bone marrow would have confirmed or ruled out drowning because there would be diatoms if it were. Shortly after Casey’s arrest, according to testimony, LE was made aware that the pool ladder was up and the side gate open on June 16. Did they ever investigate this? Of course not because that would take away their death penalty case. Or maybe they did and hid the truth. Even during trial, after the defense bombshell opening statement they could have pulled that bone they saved in evidence and checked for diatoms. Or did they not keep anything in evidence? If that is the case then I am even more suspicious and disgusted with the quality of work that goes into a death investigation and prosecution in Florida. This isn’t just Casey’s life and death on the line, a little girl is the center of this. She deserves the truth to be known, all of it. It isn’t fair to her that her mother is hated and accused forever, of murdering her, if she drowned. Yes, she would be guilty of failure to protect if she didn’t keep her from getting to the pool. But in that case, so is every other parent of a drowning victim, guilty.
Zubendoobee- the “diatom bloom” is detected in freshwater. I know from my 5 minutes reading abstracts that the “diatom bloom” was seen in those who died in freshwater and that death from drowning in one’s bathtub or toilet also could be linked to the “bloom”. This is esoteric science which, according to some researchers, is a waste of time “for the diagnosis of death from drowning is no longer useful.” “The results deny the proof of diatoms even in bone marrow…” You use words as if you were playing a game of scrabble.
You have no intellectual curiosity and no critical thinking skills but I never thought you were a deceitful person or someone who had a total disregard for the victim. I do now.
Zubendoobee… That is flipping hilarious…. Thanks Anonymous.. I needed that laugh this morning… 😀
You are so inappropriate.
Justice-I thought Zubendoobee responded. Forgive me, I didn’t mean to imply that you were inappropriate. I didn’t even look at your “nic” until just this minute. I’m sorry. (Actually I reread my post and it is in an odd way totally goofy-and I can see how anyone could have found it amusing).
Oh good move Anonymous,
I’ve seen you as a rude anally retentive know-it-all but I’ve never perceived you as a Bully.
Gawd, I mean, how many personae are there inside of that hard egg head of yours? 8..9..10?
For 3 years your head has been so far up my behind I never took time to think about the person you really are but now I see.
You’re a Stalker! You frighten me! When you were able to produce in a cut & paste.. at least 20 of my comments I addressed to other people from one year before, at Bullstopper’s blog, I was shocked.
Honestly, I find it highly disturbing that you dislike me so much that you’d save my comments for just the right moment in order to make some mediocre point…or to prove you are right in some way, that is not normal by anyone’s standards. That’s a stalker.
I don’t care how many Hats you have in your closet, but that Stalking Hat really scares me. And now that Zuben has decided comment here, you go after her and call her names which is really telling just how much theJBMission bothers you.
You’re the deceitful person, IMO.
Oh Anonymous,
Here you are again, wearing another Hat. Lets see, there’s the Doctor Hat, the Lawyer Hat, the Mind Reader Hat, and now the Clown Hat!
I’m laughing out loud Anonymous!
How many hats do you have girl!
Oh, by the way, not too close at all. I have nothing to hide and have always been very open about my motives. Also, every life that dies, decomposes. It wasn’t a matter of Casey letting her rot. She had no control of that after Caylee died. I don’t know who put her on Suburban drive. There was no evidence to prove that or connect her to that sight. I heard George say in an interview that the other day was the first time in a long time he’d been to that sight. I wonder when was the previous time? I can’t imagine he’d want to go there shortly after Caylee was found. I would think it would take a long time and maybe never that they would want to go there. I personally would avoid ever getting closer than the corner, tuning the opposite direction. I wouldn’t want to remember my loved one for where their body was found or where they died. I would remember their life and the joy that brought to me. But that is just me and we each grieve and celebrate life differently.
Have a nice day.
Where are my comments? I thought I made some very good points. Um.
Good Morning Atty Hornsby:
If Mason’s comments about Judge Strickland are going to be looked into, will he just receive a Public Reprimand or be Admonished? Thank-you in advance for a reply.
did you watch the trial? did you read everything? If you did then you know that Cindy’s version of the pool ladder and when it was left up changed several times..and that the *phone call* that she made to George asking about it didn’t happen..at least not on the day of..days preceding and days after she said it did..It’s in the phone records..or more to the point that call is NOT in the phone records..and unless you were there you have no idea what she had control over do you? I believe she was in complete control..all by her little pathological lying, thieving, murdering self.. I’m not here to change your mind nor to debate the issue all over again and you d@mn sure won’t change mine..IMO Casey Anthony killed her daughter Caylee and tossed her little body in the swamp and went on to party for 31 days without a care in the world..THAT is why her little body was decomposed..The jury may not have had enough to hang it’s hat on..but that most certainly does not mean she is innocent. ..There is NO doubt in my mind that she killed her..nor in the minds of the great majority of the world..I would bet my life on it..The trial is over..there are no other suspects..but Caylee will have justice in the end..and hopefully Casey will never have a minutes piece..
Correct me if I am wrong, but when a probationer completes probation doesn’t the Dept of Probation/Parole send a letter to not only the person who served and completed probation, but also a copy to the court, prosecutor’s office and defense attorney?
It struck me as “something is not right here” when in court with Berry the first time about the question of probation where George/prosecutor answered “if we were notified I am not aware of it” to Berry. Baez answered truthfully when he said he was aware that Casey had completed probation in jail.
So I guess the moral of this story is “if you lie to the court (George) you get a free pass, but if you are truthful I will yell at you”. As Berry had ruled in the prosecutions favor about information Baez said was not turned over to the defense and Asston said “it was contained in the hard drive we turned over originally and if the defense didn’t look at everything in the hard drive that was their fault”. Guess the rules are different for the prosecution. If George/prosecutor’s didn’t look thru Casey’s file and see the letter releasing Casey from probation they were not in the same trouble as Baez or held to the same standard!
This ruling by Berry is so obviously bias against Baez it is scary! He is angry with Baez so he will “punish” his client. George/Ashton were part of Struckland’s hearing too but they are excused from bring up Struckland’s ruling to Berry at the sentencing hearing? My my, what a tangled web we weave when we practice to deceive!
Look forward to the appeal! Think I will be writing my opinion to the court of appeals. Can’t hurt. “not supposed to be used as punishment” my a**, that is exactly what Berry is using this 2nd probation for! Berry was appointed a chief judge not because of his fairness but because he will back up all crap decisions of judges under him. MO!
I have to say, I agree with you. It does seem that something is not right in this case. She served her probation in jail. This fact that in this particular case at least, that the oral pronouncement of probation being served after release from jail is scary for me. The oral statements of Judge Strickland says one thing, the written documents states another. This could pose dangerous legal questions down the road. She will be serving a probation sentence in which she has already served the probation sentence. A probation is a sentence. Something isn’t right in this case.
A signature is not as important as what someone says. No. Just take a look at this case.
Just take a look at the sentencing guidelines-that’s the law.
There is no way she served any meaningful probation while in OC jail.
The standard probation as ordered during the sentencing hearing had 13 conditions to it. Anthony is not the first felon who initially thought they had benefited from a clerical error only to later find out this was not the case. She got the mandatory probation sentence in lieu of 7 with-holds to which she had plead guilty.
No double jeopardy here as probation is not viewed by the law makers as punitive and she could never comply with the ordered probation whilst in jail. She knew it but more importantly so did her attorneys.
Perry upheld the law, that scrivener’s error does not trump a Judge’s oral pronouncement. She is being treated like every other convicted felon, just as Baez asked she be……… prior to Strickland’s sentencing.
well, when you write that opinion to the ..you may want to use the correct name of the Judge..it’s Perry..Judge Belvin Perry..not *Berry*..sheesh..
and Judge Stan Strickland..not Struckland..you must have been paying MUCH attention..and good luck with that..with your infinite knowledge and all…
Yeah and “Asston” is Ashton (missed that one didn’t you?). Get it? Jeez!
nope, didn’t miss it..I knew you were being disrespectful on that one..the others just look like ignorance..go figure..
correction YouAreFoolingYourself,
His name is Judge Belvin Perry Jr.
Geesh, you forgot the “Jr” If you’re going to correct someone make sure you do it correctly.
Noni,
I’m not trying to be the spelling police here, but if you are familiar enough with this case to offer your seemingly-educated opinion……then I’d expect you to know that it’s Judge PERRY and not “Berry”. The same goes for your spelling of “Struckland” when his name is Judge STRICKLAND. For heaven’s sake!—-the correct spellings are right there in Mr. Hornsby’s article above!!
FYI—I take great offense to your obviously intention slam on former prosecutor Jeff Ashton in paragraph three. Your use of “Asston” is really juvenile, don’t you think?? Don’t claim typos please…..I’ve seen you and the mission/melon-heads use this slur against him many times before.
Oh Get over yourself Jessica,
I’m sure it was a typo. Are you going to tell us all that you’ve never made an error in one of your several comments.
I hope not because that would make you a liar.
Oh and by the way, you should admonish all of the No Faces at FB for making a mockery of the Caylee Anthony investigation. I don’t think Judge Perry’s office appreciates you and your friends bothering him with what’s being said on the blogs. Last I heard he’s covering several dockets and doesn’t want to be bothered.
Give the man a break! He’s busy for Gawd’s sake. He doesn’t care if we call Ashton: Asston just like he doesn’t care if you call Baez; Bozo.
You’re really NOT that important…so get over yourself.
And this ain’t NO TYPO!
I just took a look at the Check fraud opinion of Judge Strickland. It states that she was found guilty of six of the counts…from what I found here; that each individual count was to run concurrently with each of the other related counts. It states that she had to serve 412 days in jail with being credited for 412 days served already. For all of them, it states that the count are to be run concurrently with all of the other counts, and that the probation is to be run concurrently with each count. Then it states at the end of the paragraph that she has to report to probation upon release. It was signed by Judge Strickland on August 1st of 2011.
As attached in the opinion of Judge Perry, it states that the defendant pled guilty to the individual counts, and that she was sentenced to 412 days in the Orange county jail with 412 days served. It then states that it is “to be followed by 1 Year probation concurrent with EACH Count with the following conditions…”
To me, it seems that the probation was to run concurrent with the days in which she got credit for serving. Meaning that she has already served probation.
There is no mockery of justice here. She received a notice stating that she served her probation, and the victim of the check fraud case received a notice stating that she served her time. There is a discrepancy between what the judge said and what is written. Yes. For me, why did it take so long?
*I have been reading that the oral pronouncement of a particular sentence has some sort of control over a written document. My question would be why this is?
Tony-With all due respect I am inclined to say you do not know what you are talking about. Judge Belvin Perry presided over the Grand Jury which indicted Ms Anthony on first degree murder charges. Paragraph three (lines 12-13) are patently false. Probation is not served simultaneously with a sentence. Probation is a conditional suspended sentence and it has to be completed “upon release” from jail and not necessarily at an undisclosed location.
Anonymous,
It matters not how Judge Perry ruled in the? Anthony debacle, people do serve probation in jail while awaiting other charges.
Didn’t you hear what the supervisor of the DOC said to Judge Perry?
Geesh girl, put on your Hearing Hat and watch a hearing every once in awhile.
Anonymous, I’m laughing my butt off.
Tony,
As you’ve stated the order say she was to report to probation upon release.
1 yr. Probation runs concurrent for each count, which means that she only serves 1yr probation for all the currently suspended counts as opposed to being consecutive which would mean 1 year probation for each count. The concurrent does not mean the probation is served while she is in jail. The order stated she must report to probation with in 72 hours of release.
It was apparently the error in the court minutes that didn’t state specifically upon release and the probation department probably did not read the entire order- bad on them, but if they had any questions they should have clarified with the court.
Inmates have been released early due to clerical errors. When the error is discovered, they are brought back to jail/prison to complete their sentence. They do not get a free pass due to the error.
Richard,
Will you be covering other trials? Just popped by to say hello. I hope you are doing well.
Interested, I hope he will be to covering other trials too.
You were talking about the ladder incident..in which Cindy adamantly stated that she called George about..Linda B questioned Cindy at length about what day and which phones they used..there was no call from Cindy to George on that day or the few days prior or after..so wth do Casey’s records have to do with that?….My mama always said..never argue with a fool..get it?
Seriously, notthatsmart – you have been on SO many blogs sputtering your spew out to anyone that would listen. Why are you crushing so badly on that murderess? You really aren’t that smart if you believe that nonsense you post.
OK Foolin, I don’t know if you’re just fooling with me, just trying to be rude, or if you don’t understand what I said or not recognize the phone numbers shown above. There was a call between Cindy and George that day. I posted it above. Voice mail comes in. He calls home then calls Casey. Perhaps Cindy left a voice mail, George called and said he didn’t know anything about the ladder then called Casey to give her a head’s up. The point is, there is evidence of that call on June 16. There are several other days that her cell phone is on his records late afternoon too. See for yourself. Did you notice the state didn’t release Cindy’s cell records for any time other than March? The home records are there though. George’s were hidden from easy view and it is still a mystery to me why only a couple of people seem to have them and why Baez had to bring up that he never received them through discovery.
I brought up Casey’s records for obvious reasons. He called her one minute after calling the home phone. Also, LE stated another non truth, showing they didn’t spend as much time as I did to compare phone records. You remember who LE is, don’t you? Those guys that tried to have Casey put to death?. I would think such a solemn and serious job would call for more serious work effort. This will be my final response, since the last comment should have been sufficient and answered your last comment. I’m not here to participate in non productive debate.
Zubendoobee/JBMission-Debate? You can’t debate something you don’t understand. You have to anticipate what your competition is going to argue and hope that your counterargument convinces the reader you know what you are writing about. When has that ever happened?
YNFN-Go to the Hinky Meter and you will read the most comprehensive analysis of the phone pings and calls made before, during and after Caylee went “missing”. JWG has written extensively and eloquently about his interpretation of the calls relative to the evidence (Tony L.et al depositions).
My daughter performed CPR on a guy she didn’t even know last night. He was punched once, hit the ground, was not breathing,no pulse, and lost function of his bladder/bowls. He wasn’t breathing for almost 4 minutes. She performed CPR and got him breathing and a pulse again before the EMTs arrived. The EMTs took him to the hospital. She has been trying to find out today if he is ok. But if she did nothing, the guy wouldn’t even have had a chance.
So I will never believe the accident theory were especially a family memeber would not try CPR or call 911. After what happend last night, it is the most ridiculous theory and unrealistic theory to even consider. My daughter did CPR on someone she did not know and she also did not know if this person had any communicable diseases.
Yep the drowning story is absolute BS.
Good for your daughter!! Everyone should know how to perform CPR and rescue breathing. Bless her for her courageous actions. I also think the pool drowning story is just that……a made-up story. If anyone is curious to read some fascinating information about just how the defense likely came up with their trial strategy…..read this thread at WS (and the article linked therein).
How the defense team used social media to their advantage.
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?144441-How-the-defense-team-used-social-media-to-their-advantage
Jessica L.
Thank you, I am very proud of her. She was worried about how the guy was doing and recently found out that he was doing fine but he signed himself out AMA this afternoon. Hopefully he had all the necessary tests. I told her she did what she could and to try not to worry herself.
It’s not the first time she had to perform CPR(which was on a neighbor), but he didn’t make it because he had a massive brain hemorrhage. It happened the same day that her grandmother passed away, she was with her when she passed. She said it was upsetting even though she knew it was coming because she had never see anyone die before and it wasn’t what she expected. But that tramatic event did not keep her from trying to help her neighbor. Even knowing that CPR did not save her neighbor, did not stop her from trying to save a stranger.
I think my daughter is a great person but she’s not a saint, she also has a lot of dysfunction going on in her life. Just putting this out there for those who want to argue how dysfunctional the Anthony’s are. I’ve yet to meet one family who hasn’t had some level of dysfunction.
I read that previously about the defense using the social media in a different article. I guess that explains who Baez was spending so much time on the phone with. If someone’s telling the truth about what “really” happened, why rely on blogs to form your defense? Those who blogged about an accidental drowning and that George was somehow involved should be very proud that the defense used their theories. I guess the ones who blogged about Cindy are alittle upset the defense didn’t focus on her but I guess it is what it is. I guess this tactic will become the norm in high profile cases.
Jess and Kim-We know in November 2009 there was a blogger who was pissed off that Brother Shaeffer, JD was going to begin to write blog articles for WFTV. Of course we know the story and the outcomes but it would be fair to say that Mr Baez used social media as a way to get a judge to recuse himself, “raise a ruckus” and basically take the heat off the defendant. MD was so accommodating and shortly thereafter all the players were introduced and the media whores found a home at his site.
Mr Baez needed competitive and combative liars to duke it out. He selected Mr Anthony and River Cruz. A match made in heaven. The “facts” they disagreed about had to do with sex and not about the death of Caylee Anthony.
River Cruz said George Anthony thought it was an accident but unfortunately a month before meeting River he told the Grand Jury something else because Casey Anthony was charged with Felony Murder in the First Degree.
The jurors just wanted to believe the liar with the most “veracity” and punish the person who lied to LE. Casey wasn’t punished because she lied to everyone about when she killed her child and why.
Kimpossible-What a wonderful thing to do. She saved someone’s life. More often than not, we often hear about these selfless people but you, Kim, have the opportunity to give her a big hug. Give her one for me too!
The drowning theory? Like George said, “We wouldn’t be here if that’s what happeneed.”
Jeez the conspiracy theories get cookier and cookier.
So are you actually suggesting the remains found off Suburban were NOT Caylee Anthony’s. The DNA analyst faked the test results?
WHY? fgs WHY?
Oh dear Lord here we go again with Zuben’s “research” projects! ((groan))
Don’t you have other “work” to get done? It always cracks me up when you morph into a “pseudo-intellectual”. 🙂 You write about needing to complete work for your “clients”. ROFL……let’s get real for a moment, shall we? I understand you are an astrologer and your “clients” (sounds so business-like) want their charts and horoscopes done. Maybe a good tarot card reading and throw those runes around to top it off! LOL. Do you also channel spirits and perform “energy work” with your “client’s”chakras?? Do you work the county fair circuit or just operate from home? 🙂
Oh Jessica..
here you go again telling everyone in the World what you and your Facebook buddies do in your spare time.
You find some basement dweller with 4 homemade computers wearing a Geek hat, have him hack into computers just for giggles, to find out the names, addresses, family members, children, employers and whatever else you could use to hurt somebody simply because they don’t agree with you.
Tell me Jessica, is it really that fun? I mean what do you plan to do with this information? Is this the way you handle all of your adversaries in real life. If a teacher gives your child a failing grade, do you send your kid with a dozen eggs to her house? Or worse?
Do you also search a person’s criminal record, family obituaries to find the names of family members to scare them or get the dirt on them?
Last I heard that’s called cyber bullying. I wonder if that’s what Judge Perry sees in all of your childish letters to his office. Maybe he’s watching your crowd and keeping your names and not my site. Just a thought..
Good luck and thanks for admitting that you are a cyber bully.
I bet your group is mad at you now Jessica. LOL, they’re probably saying Jessica sure has a big mouth.
A bit of perspective from the rational world for Orange County:
And If They Kill Her?
Survey says that Casey Anthony is the most hated person in America, much to Michelle Bachmann’s relief. That her life is in serious danger is beyond question. Yet Florida Judge Belvin Perry, after ten days of soul searching, has decided that she must come out of hiding and serve her year of probation.
This may not end well.
Given the residual anger over Anthony’s acquittal for murdering her daughter, Caylee, combined with the broad array of nutjobs who believe that they have been chosen by God to exact revenge, there’s an awfully strong possibility that some Florida yahoo will try to execute Anthony. Perry knows this. He doesn’t care.
In the order filed today by Perry, he writes that probation is meant to rehabilitate an individual and that serving probation while incarcerated “would clearly thwart society’s interest in extracting a full, fair, and just punishment for a crime.”
“To permit the Defendant, whose counsel was well aware that the probation was to begin upon the Defendant’s release from jail, to avoid serving probation now, would take a lawfully imposed sentence and make it a mockery of justice,” he writes.
All of this would be fine if this wasn’t tantamount to putting a target on Anthony’s head, but when the reality is that a bunch of nice folks have suggested that Casey Anthony needs to die, the old order of probation takes on a different character. As in a death sentence. If Judge Perry is worried about a mockery of justice, then he really ought to consider the impact of compelling a defendant to put in a position where her murder seems pretty darned likely.
Perry blames Jose Baez for trying to bootstrap a “scrivener’s error” in the sentence to argue that her probation was already served.
“To additionally seek to use a scrivener’s error to achieve an end that was against the court’s intent, especially where both parties had argued the issue of when probation should commence, strikes at the very foundation of our justice system,” Perry writes.
He said that Baez violated his duty of candor, which is “the gold standard that all officers of the court — especially attorneys — must live by.”
Bad Jose, taking advantage of a mistake in the order to save his client from near-certain death. Notably, Judge Perry doesn’t blame the incompetence of the scrivener. Hey, stercus accidit. It’s very noble of Judge Perry to think so much about the foundation of our justice system, but it would be nice if he considered the foundation of Anthony’s continued existence, which precludes a bullet in the head.
The problem here isn’t a matter of whether she served her probation already or should be compelled to serve it in the ordinary course. All things being equal, she should complete her probation just like any other defendant. The difference, of course, is that not too many other defendants have good reason to believe that serving a sentence of probation will result in their death. Casey Anthony has every reason to expect that to happen.
The decision by Judge Perry that justice demands that Casey Anthony come out of hiding and play by the same rules as everyone else fails to take into account another, countervailing duty. He has a duty not to issue a ruling that is likely to result in a defendant’s death, unless he’s imposing capital punishment. Anthony was acquitted, preventing Perry from ordering her execution straight out, and enabling him to give that great speech he wrote for the time of sentence about the horrors of a mother murdering her daughter.
But is he ordering her execution through the back door? It sure looks that way.
This court is very mindful that it is a high probability that there are many that would like to see physical harm visited upon the Defendant,” Perry wrote.
Yeah. So? Does Perry suspect his “mindfulness” has the power to stop bullets?
While he may feel an obligation, not to mention public pressure, to force Anthony to serve out her probation, Judge Perry has concomitant obligation to make sure his order, particularly given that we’re talking about probation here, doesn’t compromise her life. This isn’t your everyday probation situation, and pretending that it is by failing to account for the very real threat to her life, undermines the foundation of the legal system. Judges don’t expose probationers to death to make a point and curry public favor.
And what is probation to do with this? Should her probation officer help get her a job at the Piggly Wiggly? Will she report under cover of darkness? Casey Anthony’s notoriety is something that no one can ignore, including the cogs in the system that are likely to be blamed should harm befall her.
Unusual circumstances call for unusual responses, and Judge Perry’s handling of this issue in the most ordinary of manners (and with some of the sorriest platitudes every uttered), isn’t merely offensive, but a shocking dereliction of duty. No matter how hated Casey Anthony may be, and no matter whether she deserves the hatred being heaped upon her, her death at the hand of some wacko is not part of her probationary sentence.
So what speech will Judge Perry deliver at her funeral? There aren’t many platitudes to cover the murder of a hated but acquitted defendant for having been order to serve out probation, and Judge Perry’s way with words clearly isn’t up to the job.
We should put this all on Judge Perry huh? Upon release means nothing? The check theft and forgery was just a minor inconvenience to Amy H., the financial institutions and retail stores. Have you ever considered her safety wouldn’t be an issue if she had told the truth or not stolen from Amy H.? Or should we put that on Judge Perry too?
As this author states crime does pay!
http://www.examiner.com/la-in-los-angeles/sources-casey-anthony-has-inked-a-multi-media-deal-6-figuure-cash-advance
Since July 6, 2011 everyone who has written about this verdict has assumed that since Ms Anthony is not subject to the Son of Sam laws that she will write a book and as part of the deal she will more than likely get a percentage of the sales. Someone will come forward and want to make it into a LMN movie and for all intents and purposes Ms Anthony will be able to pay any judgements should she not prevail in the countless civil actions. So far the only one going forward at this time is ZFG and it is only a matter of paying her off to squash that one. Orange County will know where to send the invoice when they put her on a monthly payment plan or debit her account when she actually finds a bank that will give her one.
While she doesn’t have to work at Mcdonald’s most contracts for book deals don’t prohibit others from working or require authors to resign from their position at xyz company. ( “otr”- if you want to buy a McDonald’s franchise you cannot practice medicine or law).
Ron P,
Many people have a deep hatred for many things, even though they may voice their frustrations doesn’t mean the will act on them. Of coarse there may be a few nuts out there, but the court can’t rely just on possible threats. Many defendants, those aquitted of crimes, witness,and jurors from non-high profile cases receive threats or possible retaliation from victim’s families, friends, and even nut cases. It doesn’t just happen in this case, threats are a possibility in many cases. Casey, cloaked by her various lawyers and a safe haven, has been able to hide out, where many other threatened people have to go back to their known home address. The judge also stated that Casey’s location will be sealed.
OJ was at one time one of the most hated, so was Bernie Maddoff and members of his family. Not everyone acts out on their hatred or frustrations in violent ways.
The defense is doing what they need to do to provide protection for her by keeping her whereabouts quiet, as they should because they helped fuel the fire. If she is sellingl her photos or has a book deal, then maybe that will be considered employment. If not, she could study for and obtain her GED. Mr. Mason was going on and on about how smart she is, then he or Baez can give her some type of clerical job and not reveal her employment to anyone but the probation officer.
Probation was given in lieu of the 7 other counts Casey plead guilty to. Probation was given as part of her sentence instead of her serving additional time for the other counts. Probation was to run concurrent with each count so she only had to serve 1 year for all seven counts. In Judge Stricklands original order (after the conditions are listed) it states that she was to report to the Probation office within 72 hours of her release from Depart. of Corrections. Copies of the order and the court minutes were to be provided to the Probation Office.
Don’t try to make a martyr out of Casey because she isn’t one. She was an unknown to the majority of the world until 31 days after her daughter died. It was the odd circumstances in this case that created the intense interest. The majority of people have now moved on and continue to do so. Many people don’t like her, so what.
She is a convicted criminal and needs to comply with her probation if ordered to do so. Her best chance of any type of redemption is restitution.
Hi Kimpossible!
The anger directed toward Casey Anthony (and it seems anyone who is offended by the way state power has been wielded in this case) is irrational, unproductive, and ultimately dangerous. I don’t know Casey Anthony any more than I know you but I would feel compelled to speak up for you too if you were being bullied.
A terrible thing happened in this family. Whatever happened it is none of my business and it is none of your business and it is none of Nancy Grace’s business. Period. It might have been the business of the state of Florida to punish Casey Anthony if they could prove she harmed her child but they couldn’t. They could not convince an impartial group of citizens that she did anything wrong except lie to police officers who were interrogating her.
Whatever happened to Caylee Anthony is her mother’s business. It was her child. It’s her loss–it’s not mine, it’s not yours, it’s not a loss for any of those sad people who screamed “Justice for Caylee” outside of the Orange County courthouse. It’s none of our business since, whatever happened to her wasn’t a crime. We can speculate about what happened but to what end? Nothing will convince those who believe “blind justice” is synonymous with “blind vengeance.”
The law of the state however is my business and it should be your business too. It is the covenant we’ve made with each other as a civilized people.
My understanding of the law leads me to believe that Judge Perry has made errors that will have the convictions for giving false statements to law enforcement reversed because the evidence used to convict her of that crime was not legally obtained. Even if the convictions stood however, I believe the sentences Judge Perry handed down for those convictions should be vacated because he makes an error of law (misreads the statute) in separating and stacking false statements part of the same interrogation. The probation sentence is likewise contrary to what is permitted by law (for about 4 really good reasons).
We can debate those issues I suppose until the Fifth District Court of Appeals settles it once and for all. And they will. We have a great appellate system here in Florida. Just ask Richard Hornsby how much the DCA likes it when judges act vindictively. Those justices are not elected–they are appointed and then retained on merit–so we can expect sound legal opinions rather than pandering to the public. In fact, when the appellate decisions are published I expect them to be embarrassingly brief of Judge Perry. If you think this judge has a great record with the DCA then simply don’t know where or how to look for the facts.
Technically, here in Florida, Casey Anthony committed three crimes for each check she 1. forged, 2. handed in to be cashed, and 3. accepted money in exchange for. When Hornsby–way back somewhere on this topic–wrote that Judge Strickland could have hit her with a 30+ year sentence he wasn’t kidding. But is that what we want as citizens with a vested interest in the law? Do you want Casey Anthony–or anyone–to be punished for 30+ years for a theft of $644 when it was paid back and the state didn’t even have to pay for a trial because she confessed? Here are other questions I pose to you: Do you want the state to have the power of sentencing people to indefinite times in the future depending on whether or not they win a separate trial? Do you want all convictions for theft of $644 to be punished with over a year in jail in solitary confinement and probation terms that if violated could mean decades in prison? Do you really want the state to have the power to parse false statements to law enforcement into as many separate crimes as possible? Do you want state attorney offices to seek the death penalty only because they know a “death qualified” jury is more like to convict? Do you really want prosecution cases to showcase character evidence in murder trials? Do you really want state attorneys to put on fraudulent evidence? Do you really law enforcement to handle domestic tragedies the way they handled this one?
Reasonable people should be offended by these abuses of power. I’m a reasonable person. I also have the advantage of being right.
Do you really want acquitted citizens treated this way by judges, by the press, and by the public at large? Casey Anthony is poor, uneducated, alone, and probably mentally ill. She was accused and she was acquitted. Do you want everyone who is poor, uneducated, alone, mentally ill, and acquitted to be treated the same way?
Like I wrote earlier. I don’t know her or her father or her mother or brother. I don’t know her attorneys or her friends. I didn’t know her daughter and I wouldn’t have known the woman she would have become had she lived. And you wouldn’t have either. If a fair trial is held and a jury concludes that a woman I don’t know isn’t guilty of killing a child I didn’t know then it’s none of my business. The sheriff’s office doesn’t have reason to arrest anyone for a crime as far as I know so it is none of my business.
The bullying–which is open, unrelenting, and pathological–of Casey Anthony is something I take a principled stand against.
Those are perfectly legitimate issues to debate as far as I’m concerned. I’m repulsed though by blow hard anonymous bullies.
That is the best comment (or most certainly) one of the best I have read on this blog entry. Thank you.
Tony-“Whatever happened is none of my business… It might have been the business of the State of Florida…. Whatever happened to Caylee Anthony is her mother’s business. “It” was her child. It’s her loss, not mine…whatever happened to her wasn’t a crime.The law of the state is my business. Reasonable people should be offended by these abuses of power… I’m a reasonable person. I also have the advantage of being right.”
A good writer is someone who is a good reader. Ron P is a bone picker.
Any site dealing with Casey Anthony seems to be taken over sooner or later by the torch and pitchfork crowd. Discussing legal issues is beyond them. And they think they are doing something for Caylee Anthony…who is dead…who they never knew…who would have likely grown up to be just like the woman they hate. (Is there really reason to believe otherwise?)
The characters on this site amuse me. Especially those who sign with cute names or some version of “anonymous.” Read the first chapter of the The Scarlet Letter sometime. These self-righteous hausfraus are exactly what Hawthorne imagined when he wrote about the good women of Salem back in the 17th century. The oldest and ugliest were always the ones who shouted loudest.
Sorry…I meant “Chapter 2” of the Hawthorne classic. Enjoy:
It was a circumstance to be noted, on the summer morning when our story begins its course, that the women, of whom there were several in the crowd, appeared to take a peculiar interest in whatever penal infliction might be expected to ensue. The age had not so much refinement, that any sense of impropriety restrained the wearers of petticoat and farthingale from stepping forth into the public ways, and wedging their not unsubstantial persons, if occasion were, into the throng nearest to the scaffold at an execution. Morally, as well as materially, there was a coarser fibre in those wives and maidens of old English birth and breeding, than in their fair descendants, separated from them by a series of six or seven generations; for, throughout that chain of ancestry, every successive mother has transmitted to her child a fainter bloom, a more delicate and briefer beauty, and a slighter physical frame, if not a character of less force and solidity, than her own. The women, who were now standing about the prison-door, stood within less than half a century of the period when the man-like Elizabeth had been the not altogether unsuitable representative of the sex. They were her countrywomen; and the beef and ale of their native land, with a moral diet not a whit more refined, entered largely into their composition. The bright morning sun, therefore, shone on broad shoulders and well-developed busts, and on round and ruddy cheeks, that had ripened in the far-off island, and had hardly yet grown paler or thinner in the atmosphere of New England. There was, moreover, a boldness and rotundity of speech among these matrons, as most of them seemed to be, that would startle us at the present day, whether in respect to its purport or its volume of tone.
“Goodwives,” said a hard-featured dame of fifty, “I’ll tell ye a piece of my mind. It would be greatly for the public behoof, if we women, being of mature age and church-members in good repute, should have the handling of such malefactresses as this Hester Prynne. What think ye, gossips? If the hussy stood up for judgment before us five, that are now here in a knot together, would she come off with such a sentence as the worshipful magistrates have awarded? Marry, I trow not!”
“People say,” said another, “that the Reverend Master Dimmesdale, her godly pastor, takes it very grievously to heart that such a scandal should have come upon his congregation.”
“The magistrates are God-fearing gentlemen, but merciful overmuch,–that is a truth,” added a third autumnal matron. “At the very least, they should have put the brand of a hot iron on Hester Prynne’s forehead. Madame Hester would have winced at that, I warrant me. But she,–the naughty baggage,–little will she care what they put upon the bodice of her gown! Why, look you, she may cover it with a brooch, or such like heathenish adornment, and so walk the streets as brave as ever!”
“Ah, but,” interposed, more softly, a young wife, holding a child by the hand, “let her cover the mark as she will, the pang of it will be always in her heart.”
“What do we talk of marks and brands, whether on the bodice of her gown, or the flesh of her forehead?” cried another female, the ugliest as well as the most pitiless of these self-constituted judges. “This woman has brought shame upon us all, and ought to die. Is there no law for it? Truly there is, both in the Scripture and the statute-book. Then let the magistrates, who have made it of no effect, thank themselves if their own wives and daughters go astray!”
“Mercy on us, goodwife,” exclaimed a man in the crowd, “is there no virtue in woman, save what springs from a wholesome fear of the gallows? That is the hardest word yet! Hush, now, gossips; for the lock is turning in the prison-door, and here comes Mistress Prynne herself.”
Hi Ron P.
It is not uncommon for a person who commits a crime to be charged with multiple offenses. Even in something considered relatively minor as a traffic stop for speeding, someone may also face multiple violations from that one stop such as carless or wreckless driving, possible seat belt violation, if driving under the influence, or multitude of other offenses depending on the persons actions at the time. Multiple charges can occur with a variety of crimes, so Casey was not treated any differently. It’s also not uncommon that the charges get downgraded or a Judge imposes a reduced sentence with probation which is what Casey received. Sit in any courtroom and you will see what Casey received was not unfair.
Where do you get that Casey was uneducated, she was a half credit shy from graduating and too lazy to make up the credit to get her diploma. She had a job but and after having Caylee she was fired from her job because she didn’t report to work as she was required to . She then pretended to have a job, getting others to babysit Caylee while she went to her pretend job. She created fake job emails from a fake boss and email them to herself. Supporting herself with money she stole from her family, friends and ex-fiance. Casey came from a middle class family. Because of her notoriety she was afforded opporitunities many truely poor defendants don’t get, such as the ability to sell photos of Caylee for $200,000 to fund her defense prior to becoming indigent. Where most poor defendents only have a public defender.
Casey stealing was a pattern prior to Amy’s checks. She stole over 100 checks from her mother and credit cards. Perhaps if her parents had done something about this prior, maybe none of the tragic events would have taken place. But people can’t blame Cindy for Casey’s actions, Casey was an adult. I’m sure Cindy kept giving Casey chances to straighten up because she didn’t want the mother of her granchild to have a criminal record. Casey disregarded these chances and kept stealing. The people that keep defending Casey speak of her as if she’s a child, but she’s not.
Casey didn’t just take one of Amy’s checks and cash it for that amount, she wrote out multiple checks on various occasions (multiple crimes..plus mutiple charges for each check). Don’t be mad at the system, be angry at Casey for commiting the crimes.
Maybe criminals need to research the possible charges and penalties before they do the deed. Ignorance of the law is not a defense. Definately do not commit a crime in Florida due to the Sunshine Law because if the crime becomes high profile the media will have a field day requesting all the documents.
I don’t know when you began following the case, whether 3 yrs ago or more recent. But if it wasn’t for George and Cindy retrieving Casey’s car from the towyard (George could have left it there), and Cindy calling 911 then the public may have never known Caylee was missing. The public became aware because the media picked up on the 31 days of it not being reported by the mother. Also Cindy went on shows such as Nancy Grace and Greta pleading for the public to look for Caylee. The family commented to the media on multiple occasions early on because the family believed the child was kidnapped.
I agree that I am not personally vested in this case, but I have been following for 3 years. Other people feel a more personal connection. Because of the personal pleas by the family and Casey re-iterating her kidnapping lies on jailhouse videos people all over the country called in tips and sightings. Law Enforcement had to investigate many tips and even some families were interviewed because their daughters looked like Caylee. The family also contacted Texas Equisearch and Tim Miller came to their house when Casey was out on bond (she was saying she would be able to help if she was out of jail) When the family realized the searches would also be looking for a deceased Caylee, they shuned him(why when many kidnapped children are killed and dumped by their abductors?). Hundreds of people joined the search (some that still believed Caylee was kidnapped, others who thought Casey was responsible). Some people volunteered at the Kid Finders booth or donated money. The majority of those people where from Orlando, but there where others from various states. Those people are angry and have reason to be angry.
Casey first revealed her kidnapping story to the 911 operator when the operator asked Cindy to put the mother on the phone. No police were present at that time. When the investigators arrived to get information on a “missing’ child, how do you think they are suppose to obtain information? They don’t get it by osmosis. They get information from questioning the last person who admitted being with child, which happens to be the mother. The investigators didn’t come in to the case with the expectation that the mother of the child would lie.
If you recall when Casey was first arrested, she was charded with child endangerment and the lying counts, she was not charged with 1st degree. She was arrestd not after just one, but multiple wild goose chases directed by Casey. Universal was the last straw because they realized the mother was impeding the investigation and they wanted to find out why. They told her the information she was giving them was turning out to be lies, they gave her chances to come clean by giving her examples of different cases they’ve worked on and by telling her that the situation would snowball(yes that word was first used multiple times by investigators) if her lies continued. She chose to maintain the lie.
When Casey was charged with first degree, it was when evidence came back that the child was most likely dead(who would have thought that to be correct), that the child was probably in the trunk at some point, and the chloroform results. The Grand Jury handed down the indictment. The prosecutors withdrew the 1st degree and later re-instated it after the remains where found with duct tape in the location of the nose/mouth of the skull. The prosecutors believed the placement of the tape showed forethought.
I do believe in the death penalty, but I do understand why they charged 1st degree. The prosecutors where not specifically seeking death, that just happens to be one of the possible punishments in Florida with the other being life in prison. I just thought it was a waste since the victims family is also the defendants family and would beg for her life if she had been convicted. There were also lesser charges the jury could have considered. Also Judge Perry was very lienant in jury selection since he was hurried to get a jury seated. This was not a death qualified jury by normal standards, not when 2 of the jurors basically said they couldn’t impose the death penalty but the judge continues to question them. The one juror, a woman, stated that because of her religion she didn’t want or like to judge anyone. So Casey was lucky that judge rejected the prosecutions objections concerning that juror (so how does that show the judge always has bias against Casey)?
Criminals are frequently exposed to possible dangers both in and out of jail or prison, especially when they are in prison. So because of these perceived dangers, we should just let them all go free? Many people on probation also have trouble getting jobs because they have been convicted of crimes and many also have problems complying with the conditions of probation. Does that mean we should just release them all from probation? Casey is living basically the same as she did before, no responsibility,living under someone else’s roof.
Take advantage of the system, go sit in a courtroom, listen to the charges and observe the sentences that are handed down when somone is convicted and then decide if Casey had been treated unfairly.
Relax-your girl will come through probation and if she gets violated she will blame someone and you can begin again to write about another “shocking dereliction of duty.”
and once again EVERYONE else is responsible EXCEPT Casey..She has never had to take responsibility for her actions..and if many had their way, this would be no exception..I have a novel idea..think about this..Had Casey Anthony not stolen from Amy in the first place she wouldn’t be in this position at all..Imagine that? !!! Oh, that’s right she was desperate.. to get beer, sexy lingerie, push up bra and other asst sundries..So tell me why is it Judge Perry’s or anyone elses fault besides Casey that she has to do the time if she did the crime?..Being hated makes her special or something?..Notice to all future thieves and murderers..When you commit a crime, tell the most outrageous tall tales and make sure you make yourself notorious and YOU too can get away with anything because you will be *special* and the law won’t apply to you..Cry me a river will ya?! The blame belongs squarely on the shoulders of the perpetrator of the crime..CASEY…
You sound like one of the haters on the os blog. Do you have anything of substance to say? I mean really. Kc did take responsibility for her actions. She plead guilty and spent time in jail. Why don’t you go ahead and try starting out your post with truth instead of a mistruth? Who are you trying to fool? Everything is public record. Spewing mistruths around the blogs just feeds the fire of hate. Is that your goal?
YAFN-It is incredible the lengths to which Casey’s supporters will go. And if the literature on psychopaths was understood by these “insightful” posters, they would know that Casey is laughing at them all the way to the bank.
I know right?! She counts on them..some are working for her and the DT and hoping for a payday themselves I suppose..others, well I don’t even begin to understand what they are thinking..I know one thing, it would scare the chit out of me to be able to identify with this sociopath in in shape form or fashion..I don’t understand why Casey should be treated differently than anyone else just because she is hated by so many..Who’s fault is that..ours? ..the media? the Judge and prosecutor? ANYBODY’S except Casey’s ..same as it has been for the last 3 years..*They* are intent in making her some kind of martyr or something…just tells me much about their character and morals..or lack thereof..you have to wonder about their own mental health..and then some people just enjoy being obstinate and want to argue about anything… I think the majority fall in that last category myself..again that’s jmo tho..
The people who are up in arms about probation don’t quite connect the dots. Way back in January 2010 Mr Baez gladly accepted probation for his client because he stated in open court that his client would be exonerated of the murder charges. Probation never looked so good to anyone but Casey Anthony on that day. To think that someone thought she was going to be walking around looking for a job, keeping away from friend and foe, having a beer and no “weed”. The implied assumption that her liberty and freedoms would return in this lifetime must have been heady stuff to deal with post felony conviction(s).
Now that their golden girl has to come back to Orlando they are all up in arms about the legal ineguity of her situation and the possibility that she is being subjected to “double jeopardy” when in reality a clerical mistake was made and amended.
But I bet you dimes to donuts that if they looked over their deed (to their home)and saw a scrivener’s error they would be shouting from the rooftops that the oral agreement was what should stand-not some jackwagons clerical error.
Yet another mistruth. Didn’t the Dr say she was not a sociopath or a pathological liar? Are you a Doctor? You spew these mistruths for what reason? Lets try to solve your mistruth problem before we go on to work on your other problems. Try to make a post with no mistruths, then we can go from there… good luck.
Wow,
Nice to meet you “YouAintfoolingnobody” I suppose you’re talking about me because I think the jury got it right. So does that make me a sociopath? I’m sorry, but I don’t think we’ve ever met.
But I’ll pay you a compliment. At least you added JMO at the end of your commentary which tells me you’re not quite as rude as the majority of *THEM* But IMO you’re still in *THEIR* category. In other words, there’s nothing really special about you, you just happen to have a little more manners.
idk..are you a sociopath? Could be for all I know..and yes I did add jmo..because that is exactly what it is…and I’m in MY OWN category TY..I don’t play follow the leader..but, I appreciate the compliment..I try to be polite..am not always successful..but find no reason not to try anyway..as far as me being *nothing really special*..I guess that would depend on who you ask ;-)..but you’ve NEVER seen me say anything of the sort..have a good night..
but just to be clear..even in *moo* I never called anyone but Casey a sociopath..
Anonymous,
Why can’t you understand. It doesn’t matter if I read the literature. I still haven’t met Casey Anthony in person. How can I even speculate IF she fits the criteria of a psychopath or a sociopath or ANY personality disorder if I’ve never met her?
In my opinion, it’s ludicrous and arrogant to pretend to know so much about a person you’ve never met.
So far you’ve put on the Doctor Hat, the Mind Reader Hat, the Lawyer Hat, how many hats do you have girl?
I’m laughing out loud Anonymous.
I wonder…..
Has any defense lawyer ever aggressively courted the media as much as Baez? I can name just a handful, but Baez rises to the top of the national list. What ever happened to “No comment”?? From the very beginning, there wasn’t a camera in sight that Baez didn’t stick his face in front of!
Jessica,
I don’t think Kathi Belich would have accepted a “no comment”. She practically tripped over Baez’s back with a microphone begging for a morsel.
It was comical at times. I know I got a big chuckle just watching her sometimes.
As for press coverage for the prosecution, I often wondered who was leaking information to the press but after the prosecution rested their case it was obvious to me who was doing the leaking.
The prosecution’s entire case played out exactly as it did in the press. There were absolutely no surprises as we all expected. So if I were to speculate, I’d say it was someone from the State Attorney’s Office, perhaps LDB or JA.
Oh now that’s the funniest, most assbackwards answer ever!! LOL!! Thanks for the mighty big guffaw today!!! 🙂
One lil’ ‘ol question for you, Granny Queen-of-mean……
What is Kathi Belich’s job title again???
LMAO at the comparison. Now go ahead and tell me something stupidly snarky like “You have a good day now, Jess…because I KNOW I AM!!!”
(enter maniacal bwa-ha-ha cackling from the criminal underbelly of Nawlins….)
Jessica L. your comment cracked me up! I love it! Thanks for making my day. 🙂
I have watched Kimpossible put her in her place with facts and questions. Of course she never responds with any factual answers. She then slinks back to the ‘mission’. Then after about a week resurfaces with more baseless venom.
JBM,
In my opinion, the media can’t make anyone talk no matter how pushy they are, especially a lawyer. Lawyers and others say No Comment all the time.
The prosecutions case played out as it did in the press with no surprises because all the documents where obtained and reported on by the press thanks to the Sunshine Law. The evidence and circumstances the state obtaind fit with their theory and that’s the theory they presented because they believed in it (if they were constantly changing their theory like defense then their behavior would be questionable).
If the defense knew the truth through their client, why would they need to keep changing their story? 1. Caylee kidnapped Sawgrass, Caylee Alive
2.Caylee kidnappd Blanchard Park/Caylee alive 3. Jesse and his family suspicious 4. Kronk suspicious and should be investigated 5. Drowned in pool/cover up by George. When does truth require changing?
State uses sunshine, Defense uses the media. go figure
You get the silver medal, NTS. At least you lean toward polite discourse. As far as I know, I’ve never once heard you lower yourself to the level of your pal jbmish and bitter minion Marlena……happily throwing out defamatory comments, nasty names, personal (below-the-belt) accusations/insinuations, etc., etc.
Nts—you and I may disagree about almost everything, but I extend to you my personal thanks for staying above the fray and grossly inappropriate dialogue of jbm and omar/marlena!
This is in reference to the comments made primarily at the jbmission targeting prosecutors, former prosecutors, Judges (yea…both of them), as well as other case witnesses, expert witnesses, etc. IN SUM—ANYONE and EVERYONE who opposes their radical view that Casey is without fault, legal responsibility, personal/moral responsibility with regards to her child and that Casey is a virtous modern-day martyr saint whose gas smells like candycanes. JMO..
Both Mr Baez and Ms Anthony used the media to tell one lie after another.
Mr Baez said on July 20, 2008 after Ms Anthony’s Bond hearing “there’s evidence of a homicide but if they had more they would have charged her.” Of course we know immediately after saying this he visited with Ms Linda Drane Burdick and shortly thereafter he had his client moved from the jail and brought to her office. After visiting with the sex crimes, child abuse Unit Chief (LDB) Ms Anthony refused to tell the truth and accept a plea deal. Who could forget this defendant’s faux paux, “I didn’t commit the crime”. What crime? The Neglect of a Child implies the child is alive. The child was only “missing”.
On December 9, 2008 Mr Baez said, “Caylee was alive”. Two days later they found the remains of Casey Anthony’s child. He said this 6 weeks after his client was indicted on Felony Murder in the First Degree. There isn’t a lie he wouldn’t tell on behalf of his client.
Now that the money train is on the track he’s keeping his mouth shut. All the lies that both he and his cunning femme fatale told will be memorialized in a book. Neither one of them will be promoting the book because to do so would damage sales. They will both get a “cut” but neither one will bleed.
Sounds like your making all this up. I would like to read these official documents if you could link them.
Thank you notthatsmart for being not only smart but kind as always.
Bravo!
Yes “mistruth” is much more kind than the term “bald face lie.”
Wow! Anonymous’ comment begins with a mistruth.
Mistruth #1
Both Mr Baez and Ms Anthony used the media to tell one lie after another.
Hmm…ah when’s the last time Casey had a press conference??? The answer is NEVER! Anonymous, I’m laughing out loud
Mistruth #2
On December 9, 2008 Mr Baez said, “Caylee was alive” ..then you go on to say Mr. Baez lied.
Excuse you? How do you know WHAT Mr. Baez knew on Dec 9,2008 or ANY day for that matter?
Don’t you watch Judge Judy? Anonymous, I’m laughing out loud.
You can’t expect anyone to take this comment seriously when it’s based on the assumption that you “think” Baez knew.
Anonymous, please provide some facts, enough with the speculation.
Anonymous, Please allow me to help you understand the way most people perceive your words.
You went from being Dr. Anonymous to a Freak Show Mind Reader.
Which is it?
NTS-For once do your own homework. Anything you want to learn about this case is at your fingertips-Google your heart out. Go to the New Yorker and read about “Suffering Souls”-and read the follow-up article if you do not want to read Robert Hare’s research or Without Conscience. Go to the Orlando Sentinel and click on everything and anything they have compiled on the Casey Anthony trial. Go to WESH, WFTV and read Mr Hornsby’s articles on a topic that interests you. Spend your time wisely and add something substantive to the conversation. Maybe then others will take you seriously. Only you know what motivates you. Only you can change your attitude and engage in an adult conversation about crime and punishment with honesty and an open mind about the victim’s right to life.
Do you recall who the defendant told to “get a life”? That’s a peek inside the brain of someone who is vacant inside.
Perty nice way of avoiding the request. No one is forcing you to provide links for your obvious mistruths. I just asked nicely. It looks like you put in a lot of work to respond and I can respect that, but in the end you just evaded the request. thats okay. I’m a nice person and your forgiven .
Famous NTS quote taken from 8/7/11 post @ 2:57 PM.
“She may have wanted to scream the truth, but the system wouldn’t allow it.”
And you want Anon. to provide you with links to “official documents” when you make statements like this? Priceless!
Ah-ha-I am quite confident that if NTS looked at the probable cause affidavit, read Ms Anthony’s explanation about how and why Caylee went missing, listened to the first jailhouse phone call and simply stopped right there and reflected upon what Mrs Anthony told the dispatcher “Something’s not right. I found my daughter but I can’t find my granddaughter” she would have had a foundation or a starting point relative to understanding who this defendant is.
Taking a piece of paper and answering ONE vital question WHAT DO I KNOW would have all but eliminated three years of arguing with people who could wade through the crap and come to understand why Ms Anthony was indicted on Felony Murder-there was evidence of murder on July 16, 2008 even if NTS doesn’t think so. We know she wasn’t there.
In both the probable cause affidavit and Ms Anthony’s explanation we see someone who is disordered, detached, without shame, guilt or concern for her child. The soundlessness of her concern is what got everyone’s attention.
As one reads John A and Yuri M supplemental report we see them outline in vivid detail the psychopathic traits they observed in Ms Anthony. Read Ms Anthony’s account of who her child was- she referred to her as a “white female”. Is that a little too cold? There have been any number of people who have analyze the defendant before and after the trial-see Dr Keith Ablow’s Oct 2008 article describing her as a psychopath. He never spent 5 minutes with the defendant.
Everything you said leads one to believe that something was wrong. It is the narrow minded that didn’t dig deep enough to find the truth. Once you open your mind, all these documents begin to make sense. I can’t help it if folks are stuck way back. See? you are making the same mistake that the investigators made. You called it early on. You still have never looked into it. You are stuck on July 15th 2008. This investigation needed to be lead by someone like Appie that could continue to look deeper. Ym does not have the capacity to handle someone as complicated as Kc. Yes during the interrogation, we learned of their combined experience, but we didn’t learn anything else. Thank goodness the Jury could see right through this investigation…. MOO
notthatsmart,
I doubt very seriously if she would have the link because I don’t think they exist. I think this is Anonymous speculating again. She pretends to know all but seldom does she provide proof. At least that’s been my experience whenever I’ve tried to reason with her.
Jbmission,
Thank you for pointing that out. I guess I was learning about this person that considers their speculation as fact. I don’t really mind if they voice it as an opinion, but to state something as fact and then dance around when called on it, speaks for itsself. I will take note and thanks for the heads up.
Let’s see, KC left the house with Caylee, 31 days later KC says she left Caylee with a nanny who then kidnapped Caylee. No one can find the nanny, not even a phone #, not even a meeting with anyone.
So when KC is asked what happened to Caylee she clams up and doesn’t know or tells some other lie.
What mother would lie regarding the whereabouts of her child?
KC had the child last. What happened to her? NO more BS or lies, how about the truth KC?
Richard,
Why oh why have you let these people take over your website?
It is hard to find your opinion and then they even argue with your expertise. (nts)
tattle tale 🙂
Baxter,
You are right. I searched through the 275 comments and could not find your opinion. Pretty hard to argue with your expertise when we can’t find your opinion. Btw, what is your opinion?
I know Baxter..I wondered the same thing..Much of it Baez and Co..and Ants..(not all though..like I said earlier..there are a few good but naive souls) so let them babble..Liars can’t keep their stories straight and even though the trial is over..who knows what truth may accidently be expelled from their BS one day..Probably be the closest we will ever come to finding out the truth..I’m just not even going to bother to read the comments anymore..I can’t bear to see Caylee disrespected in death the way she was in life..and that’s all they are doing..
PS Baxter..they still can’t comprehend that being found not guilty does not for a millisecond mean innocent and we know she’s not innocent..I’m really starting to wonder about ALL the pets that died in the previous years..As someone who has always had animals and had to bury a few..I was stunned when the SA starting listing off as to just how many had died..most with seemingly unknown causes..reminded me of Jeffrey Dahmer..now THAT’S a frightening thought knowing she is walking the street..anyone that can kill their daughter and walk hand and hand through Blockbuster with her BF a few hours later, I truly believe could kill again if someone was in her way…moo
I agree. It’s oddly fascinating to read their thoughts…..as their charade continues to wage on. Some posters “over there” are missing the exciting (manic-state) conspiracy theory-type, tin-foil-hat-donning sleuthing of the “ZFG connections”. It’s comedy gold. Cheap comedy gold. Brilliant, Jose….clap clap from one who loves to laugh at such fine examples of the absurdity of life. XX
mistruths..white lies..half truths..JB, you and Cindy/Seagull speak the same language…*birds of a feather* I suppose..tell seagull no pun intended..Casey didn’t take responsibility for anything..there you go with those *mistruths* again..She was caught on camera STEALING, she had NO CHOICE but to admit to it..She was stone cold busted..that’s the ONLY way she would EVER admit to anything…as horrible as it would have been, I wish Caylee’s murder had been as well..then you couldn’t have spewed your LIES and gotten her off..That’s right I forgot..spewing lies IS YOUR goal..Have no idea what os blog is..I don’t make the rounds trying to stir the pot..muddy the waters…LIE..I know you from WS where you and Cindy/seagull did the same thing you do here..She still does…just a little more careful now that most know who she is..Yep, aside from the few trouble makers and paid minions (not to be confused with the very few with good but naive hearts) she was pretty much alone once you were banned for spouting the most ridiculous nonsense and when anyone called you on it…you disappeared..You and seagull both were hit and run posters..Never stuck around long enough to actually back up your BS..probably because you couldn’t ..we all know that..I just happened to be reading Richards blog one day and saw you were at it again..I’m not a professional mis-truther like yourself..as far as my comment about Casey being a sociopath..you’re exactly right I did put *jmo* at the end and that’s exactly what it is..it’s clear to me that she has no conscience ..None of this has ever been about justice for Caylee for you..none in the least..It’s ALWAYS been about getting a killer off even if lying was the only way to do it..and as far as what you think about me..I could give a rats azz..I’ll take anything negative you have to say about me as a compliment..as should anyone else..Consider the source, as they say..and the source as far as I’m concerned has no morals, no ethics and is nothing but a bullsh!ter..You don’t like me or what I have to say..I am oh so glad..I don’t find any of this amusing myself..you and your cohorts just act like it’s one big joke and there’s nothing funny about it..I won’t respond to you anymore NTS..it’s not worth my time..just a couple words in parting..Karma is a bitch and all of you that find this so amusing I imagine will find it biting you in the azz one day..Some of that is JMO..much of it is FACT..I pity you..I truly do…
I’ve been away for a while, but I’m back now, and applaud your comment, You. I’ll just refer to you as “You”, as well as I commend Anonymous and Kimpossible, as well as some others, as usual. You all know that you can’t talk sense to a turnip, right?
You, you, are so right when you say that Casey would admit to nothing she wasn’t caught, red-handed, doing, like forging all of those checks, or stealing Grandpa Plesea’s money so she could buy herself a new cell phone, or leading her parents to believe that she was going to graduate from high school when in fact she wasn’t going to.
Fancy that – a notorious liar such as Casey leading her parents to believe she was going to be capped and gowned, and make them proud, and boom! They learned from the school that she didn’t have the credits necessary, and once again rather than hold her accountable her parents did nothing but make excuses for her.
I’ll even take it a step further and say, in light of the fact that it’s a well known fact that Casey didn’t want Caylee, one can reasonably wonder if Casey might have born Caylee in a gas station restroom, or perhaps one at the mall, and left her in the trash had Cindy not come to conclude that Casey wasn’t just “bloated”.
It’s clear to all but the most closed minded that Casey, indeed, has no conscience, and has been deemed to be, by the majority of observant professionals, a victim of nothing but her own psychopathy.
Having been away, I’ve much catching up to do, and will get to that now. I look forward to being ridiculed by those with the JB Mission mindset! It’s always a compliment! 🙂
We all experienced times in our lives when we didn’t hear something correctly and asked for clarification. We all know that when two or more people look at a painting there will, more than likely, be three different interpretations relative to what the artist wanted to “say”. And then there are times in life when we simply do not understand the problem but are asked to figure it out and when all else fails we turn to someone for help or just go to the back of the damn book and get the answer.
But there are people who go through life mis-hearing and mis-seeing and misunderstanding so that the stories they tell themselves will add up (Malcolm). That’s what I think happened to those who believe Ms Anthony is not a psychopath or a pathological liar. They simply do not want to believe what they hear or see. When they read the lies they simply say “it was part of the script” -as though lying was values driven.
Remember the defendant told Mr Ashton, “I didn’t commit the crime” and Casey supporters always agree that “She” was never missing. “She” was dead. “She” drowned in the pool. They understand the lies. When others are repulsed by them they are called liars.