The Check Fraud Case
On Monday, January 25, 2010 Casey Anthony pleaded guilty Monday to 13 counts of check fraud. At the time of her plea, she was also being held in jail without bond on charges of murder, manslaughter, and lying to police.
Judge Strickland or Judge Solomon
In what can only be described as recognition of the chess game the State was playing with Ms. Anthony’s life by demanding the check fraud case go to trial first, Judge Strickland did not formally convict her on all 13 check fraud counts and instead threw her a lifeline by withholding the adjudication of guilt on 7 of the counts. (As I had predicted he would prior to the sentencing.)
By withholding guilt on 7 of the counts, Casey Anthony was only considered a six-time convicted felony; as opposed to a 13 time convicted felon. At the time, the felony convictions were extremely valuable to the State Attorney for impeachment purposes should Casey Anthony testify or her self-serving statements somehow be admitted (which Jose Baez almost opened the door too).
The “Catch”
But by withholding adjudication there was a legal catch. Under Florida Statute 948.01, a judge cannot withhold adjudication of guilt on a felony UNLESS they also place the person on probation.
And that is exactly what Judge Strickland did, even though everyone knew she was being held in jail on No Bond for the murder case, Judge Strickland ORALLY pronounced that she was sentenced to the 412 days she already spent in jail on the check fraud charges, but for each count he Withheld Adjudication of Guilt on, he also placed her on One Year of Supervised Probation to be served “once released.”
An Indefinite Sentence?
Almost immediately after Judge Strickland explained his sentence, Assistant State Attorney Frank George raised his concerns that such a sentence would be considered an “indefinite” sentence under Florida law (which is illegal) because Ms. Anthony would obviously be held in jail and therefore could not begin her probation for the foreseeable future.
Judge Strickland stuck with his original pronouncement and stated that if the State could think of a better idea, they should file a motion seeking the better idea. They never did.
The Confusion
While Judge Strickland’s intentions were clear, there seems to have been some confusion because the sentencing minutes that were generated after the hearing, and which Judge Strickland signed, simply stated credit for 412 days jail followed by one year of supervised probation. Notably, the sentencing minutes never contained the magical words “upon release” at the end of the sentence – not that they needed to.
And because the sentencing minutes lacked the magical words “upon release,” the Florida Department of Corrections unilaterally decided that her probation began running while she was in jail and her probation ended on January 24, 2011.
Presumably, the reason they interpreted it this way is that she was in jail awaiting trial, as opposed to serving a sentence. (Never mind she was ultimately sentenced to all the time spent awaiting trial and then some.) Thus by giving her credit for the time she spent in jail towards her probation she was allowed to double dip and essentially get a two for one.
And since nobody brought the Department of Corrections oversight to the court, no clarification was ever provided from Judge Strickland’s office.
Which brings us to the heart of the matter, was there a discrepancy between Judge Strickland’s oral sentence and the sentencing minutes in the first place. If so, did it even need to be clarified?
The Legality of Judge Strickland’s Sentence
To begin, the Florida Supreme Court has held time and time again that “a court’s oral pronouncement of sentence controls over the written document.” State v. Jones, 753 So. 2d 1276 (Fla. 2000) This principal was recently reaffirmed by the Florida Supreme Court in State v. Akins, 36 Fla. L. Weekly S215a (Fla. May 26, 2011) (“when there is a discrepancy between the written sentence and ‘the oral pronouncement, the oral pronouncement prevails.’)
As a result, even if there was a discrepancy between Judge Strickland’s oral pronouncement of sentence, where he said the probation was to begin “once released” and the written minutes that omitted these “magical words,” the oral sentence still controls – irrespective of how the defense or the Department of Corrections wants to interpret it.
Did Written Order Actually Conflict with Oral Sentence?
Nonetheless, even if the written sentencing minutes did not contain the magical words “upon release,” Judge Strickland did not legally have to even include them in his oral pronouncement for Casey Anthony’s probation to have begun “once released.”
This is because the general rule is that when a person is sentenced to incarceration followed by probation and the person completes the custodial portion of the sentence, but nonetheless remains incarcerated on another offense, the probationary portion is tolled (meaning does not begin) until the person is released from incarceration in the other case being held on. See Brooks v. State, 762 So. 2d 1011 (Fla. 5th DCA 2000). This means that absent specific language stating that Casey Anthony’s probation was to run while she remained in jail, her probation was tolled by operation of law – Judge Strickland was not required to include any magical language stating “upon release.”
Does the Defense have a Legitimate Double Jeopardy Argument?
Actually, the defense has TWO legitimate Double Jeopardy arguments.
Argument 1: Being Supervised Twice
The first argument is that requiring Casey Anthony to report to probation now amounts to double jeopardy since the Department of Corrections already “supervised” her for one year while she was in jail.
The problem with this argument is that Casey Anthony never actually did anything; a probation officer visited her at least one time and then verified her continued incarceration for the next twelve months (thus accounting for the “contacts” DOC references – read look her up online). My gut feeling is that a Court of appeals would not be to sympathetic to Ms. Anthony, because she was not actually reporting to probation and there was no impediment placed on her liberty.
I think an appellate court would say that one that the Department of Corrections actions did not amount to supervision and two, they could not supervise someone without lawful authority. And as explained earlier, a person cannot serve probation while in jail (unless the jail is made a specific condition of probation).
Argument 2: “Clarification Order” is Void
The second argument is that Judge Strickland’s Clarification Order amounts to double jeopardy because Casey Anthony had already served her sentence and the Judge’s jurisdiction to clarify the sentence had long since expired. Therefore, once a sentence has been imposed and the person begins to serve the sentence, that sentence may not be increased without running afoul of double jeopardy principles. Ashley v. State, 850 So. 2d 1265 (Fla. 2003)
Scrivener’s Error
On its face, this argument is correct. As a Judge only has 60 days from the date of a sentence to correct a scrivener’s error, which refers to a mistake in the written sentence that is at variance with the oral pronouncement of sentence or the record but not those errors that are the result of a judicial determination or error. Rule 3.800 Fla.R.Crim.Pro.
In Ms. Anthony’s case, the judge’s 60 days of jurisdiction expired on March 26, 2010. As a result, the “Clarification Order” entered by Judge Strickland is void, illegal, and unenforceable. Stang v. State, 24 So. 3d 566 (Fla. 2d DCA 2009); rev. denied. State v. Stang, 41 So. 3d 206 (Fla. 2010).
Warren Stang and Casey Anthony Sitting in a Tree, Dou-ble Jeop-ar-dy
Stang is an important case because on its face it is very similar to Ms. Anthony’s case. In Stang’s case, he was sentenced to consecutive sentences on multiple counts in a violation of probation case and given a total of 27 years in prison. Notably, the oral sentencing pronouncement intended for him to get credit for 1,915 days towards the 27 years; meaning he would have about 23 more years to do.
However, his sentencing minutes appeared to give him 1,915 days credit towards each count. The net result was that he only had 2 more months on his sentence, not 23 years. The Department of Corrections noticed this and asked the judge to clarify his sentence. So 67 days after the sentence was imposed, the court entered a “Clarification Order” (sound familiar) saying that the credit was towards the total years, not each count.
The appellate court upheld the two month interpretation, finding that the Court lacked jurisdiction to clarify the order because more than 60 days passed and finding that based on double jeopardy, once credit has been awarded, it cannot be rescinded – even if granted in complete error.
What is notable about this case is that the State Attorney’s Office never challenged the defendant’s post-conviction motions on the merits. Because if they had, the transcripts of the oral pronouncement shows that the credit was only given towards the years, not each count.
And this is notable, because the case went all the way to the Florida Supreme Court; and the Florida Supreme Court denied review of the case specifically because the State Attorney did not provide the transcripts until after the case had been affirmed by the District Court of Appeal (meaning the State simply argued the case based on the sentencing minutes and did not get the hearing transcribed). See State v. Stang, 41 So. 3d 206 (Fla. 2010).
What the clear indication of this procedural defense means is that had the transcript originally been provided to the lower courts; the Florida Supreme Court would likely have agreed that the oral sentence controls and Mr. Stang had 24 more years in prison to complete.
The Current Situation
This brings us to the current situation in Ms. Anthony’s case. It is understood that the defense will first file a Motion to Disqualify or recuse Judge Strickland. I have no doubt that Judge Strickland will grant his request and the case will then be turned over to a new judge.
Can the Successor Judge Vacate Judge Strickland’s Clarification Order
The Defense will have 20 days to file a Motion for Reconsideration asking the successor judge to vacate the Clarification Order entered by Judge Strickland. See Rule 2.330, Fla.R.Jud.Admin.
It is my opinion that the new judge will likely agree to vacate Judge Strickland’s Clarification Order, as it is clearly Void and unenforceable under Stang v. State, 24 So. 3d 566 (Fla. 2d DCA 2009)
Coming Full Circle
However, just because Judge Strickland’s Clarification Order is void and unenforceable; it does not mean his original sentence is unenforceable.
To the contrary, Judge Strickland’s original sentence still controls and the Department of Corrections – as a member of the executive branch – has a duty to enforce it. This is because, by operation of law, Ms. Anthony’s probation was tolled while she was in jail awaiting trial on the murder case.
If the defense wants to then argue that she was supervised in jail and thus double jeopardy prevents her from being supervised again; by all means, they should argue it – I know I would.
But that has been my point from the very beginning, it is not for the State Attorney or the Department of Corrections to decide whether requiring Ms. Anthony to report to probation as Judge Strickland intended amounts to Double Jeopardy – it is up to a court to decide.
Have Some Balls Lawson Lamar; Defend Strickland’s Sentence
I know next year is an election year and you want to distance yourself from Ms. Anthony and the boondogle of a prosecution you put on lest a formidable opponent emerge to run against you.
But seriously, the Very Honorable Lawson Lamar needs to grow a sack and defend Judge Strickland’s sentence and provide this community with some sense that you aren’t afraid of big bad lawyers like Mike Snure, Donald Lykkebak, and “gulp,” Cheney Mason, who make mince-meat our of your high profile cases.
If you thought she was such a danger to society that you were committed enough to have her executed, I think you should be committed enough to at least try and have the Department of Corrections execute a simple probation sentence on her for one year.
If you don’t, the irony is indeed rich that Jose Baez and Cheney Mason ultimately made you their Bitch.
99 responses to “The Great Probation Debate”
YAY!!!
Great article, Hornsby, and I now understand why you have been vocal on this issue. The last paragraph, while perhaps not a literary masterpiece that will transcend time and culture, is my NEW favorite written work!
BTW….I still think stan is just feeling left out of the media spotlight….I mean, after all, he had more than enough time to clear up this “error” or discrepancy between is oral intention and the written omission….but hey, to each his own. Wonder how long it took him and Knetchel to figure out a way to get his name back in the news? Hey….it’s just my opinion.
Thanks for the article.
Omar…..why stop there? You’re such a thoughtful writer…..a real class act! Why hold back on the ‘whole picture’? Here, I’ll help. I brought some of your pertinent comments on this very topic over from your home blog (spelling errors left intact):
Omar’s quotes from Aug. 1-2:
*”Strickland is disgusting. PERIOD. Stan seems to have his own dilusions of grandeur…..and he’s an idiot if it took him THIS long to figure this out. I’m sure he watched the trial with baited breath. Wonder why it is that he didn’t call Perry while Perry was busy trying to do the math on how much longer OC jail could host Casey and Orlando could profit off of her infamy. Wonder why dear ol’ Stan didn’t put a bug in Perry’s ear about the “misunderstanding” on Casey’s check fraud probation? I guess Stan is hoping that this little stunt will land him some gigs on some talk shows.”
*”As soon as Perry announced that release date (the second one AFTER he went back and re-figured the math), then stinky stan shoulda spoken up. It’s funny that they only decided to speak up once they lost track of Casey’s whereabouts, isn’t it? Media whores….the whole lot of them!”
*”To the rest of the free-thinking country, this stunt looks like a desperate stunt on Strickland’s behalf. I guess he was feeling a little left out of the media frenzy surrounding this case. I certainly hope that Orange County has some judges who aren’t so obviously enamoured with the fame and fortune affliction. The rest of the country is snickering.”
*”you are OH so right about knetchel. He’s such an idiot. I think he and strickland are man lovers….if only in a mental sense. I used to think knetchel was lying about strickland. Now…I have to wonder. They are cut from the same cloth if you ask me. Neither can stand it that the media isn’t beating down their doors for interviews.”
*”This whole thing is ridiculous! Apparently neither of the judges on this case have any idea of what they’re doing. How embarrassing for them.”
*”I still think it would be ridiculous to make Casey come back to Orange County to serve probation because it was their error, not hers. I also feel it is Strickland’s way of trying to grab a piece of the spotlight.”
Thanks, Omar. Stay classy!
I will. And you do the same. Thank you.
Hey…and by the way….thanks for reading at the Mission. I’m pretty sure Mr. Hornsby reads there from time to time, too….so if you are under the impression that I CARE whether he reads the comments there, then you are under the wrong impression. The nice thing about Hornsby is that, while he and I sit on opposite sides of the fence on the Casey Anthony issue, he is able to state his beliefs and the reasons for them in an intelligent and insightful manner. So even when I disagree with his opinion, I still respect his right to HAVE that opinion and his INTELLIGENCE when it comes to stating it. THAT’S why I don’t try to clog up MR. HORNSBY’s blog with comments copied and pasted from other blogs. But you know, to each his/her own.
A true sign of class, Jessica L., is being able to respect others with a different opinion. Keep workin’ at it. You might get there one day.
Jess-Omar is in possession of her own set of facts. There was the threat over at the JBMission that she would not form an opinion about the case until the trial was over. It seems now is the time to “throw stones at the players.” The evidence was “tedius” and after going through it all, she has decided that “Casey was guilty of nothing more than neglect (of what or whom we do not know) lying and poor judgement.” She believes “that everyone interprets the evidence from their own paradigm,” and she completely understands but adds the caveat, “When I read the documents, I don’t see the same things most people are [seeing].
It isn’t the reminder (c/p comments) that upsets her and certainly copying falsehoods, opinions that are patently frivolous and without merit does not implode, explode, impact or deflect from her paradigm. Her logic is circular and without foundation but that is the price of admission when you post at the JBMission.
Omar-Come prepared for Latin class. Pop Quiz.
nunc pro tunc. There was no “error” to clear up. Explain the translation using English. Do not rely on a paradigm or use a cheat sheet provided by the Pillsbury Dough Boy.
Hey Anonymous…..I WOULD reply with a clever answer, but you’re just not worth the time.
Tell it like it is!
Ok, a couple things.
Hornsby said: “If you thought she was such a danger to society that you were committed enough to have her executed…”
1) C’mon. They prosecuted Casey because she lied to police. That simply pissed ’em off enough to charge her with Murder 1 whether they had the evidence or had to cook up “84” pieces phantom of evidence. And LE “mis-speaking” on the witness stand (in a death penalty case) was rather unbecoming — wouldn’t you say.
2) “It smells like there’s been a Vendetta in the Damn Car!” They put her on trial for her life with phantom evidence (I’d call it what it really was but Lawyers will be lawyers). Maybe it’s time for everyone to stop being petulant and just put a heart shaped sticker on the file and put it in the filing cabinet.
ToyJustice-C’mon. What if Mr and Mrs Anthony decided that they were not going to pick up the car at the towyard? C’mon. They would not have had to call Amy H. C’mon. Neither parent knew that Casey was 9.5 miles (18 minutes) away from home for the past 31 days. C’mon. Had the parents made the executive decision to allow Casey and Caylee to “Fly away home” on their own terms nothing much would have happened. Perhaps they would have met up with Casey at Christmas and when asked where Caylee was, Casey would have said that she was with her in-laws skating in Central Park.
What you will never understand is death is not different – it’s forever. Casey Anthony killed her child out of necessity and although necessity is never a defense, lying and deflecting blame and punishment onto another is simply pro forma for most killers. Had the remains never been found Caylee would still be dead. Casey wasn’t arrested for lying to LE. She was arrested because LE believed the child was murdered.
Is Caylee “phantom evidence” or a real person who was buried alive in her mom’s car?
Anonymous,
I believe the theory that it was an accidental drowning with a coverup. And that Casey was a bit player in the coverup under the mind control of a Master with something to hide. I don’t have positive proof because LE only investigated Casey. But there is lots of evidence that Perry did not allow into trial to support this theory.
You clearly believe it was definitely Murder 1. If you could point me to the exact evidence that proves that, I’m willing to listen. But please don’t bother telling me that 20 year olds do Ecstasy and party. I already know that.
See, the funny thing is most 20 year olds don’t do Ecstasy and party.
Oh did I say “Most”. Um, no I didn’t. But “some” do, so let’s at least admit the obvious.
ToyJustice-Oh, we are to admit the obvious? Great. Casey killed Caylee.
Very convincing. If you say so.
Probation is meant to take place after incarceration not during. end of story…..
But I have a feeling it will fall in brat Casey’s favor as everything else that she has done. Moo
Well maybe so, but they took 3 years of her life when she was not guilty all along. When will they pay her back??????????? How will they make up for their terrible injustice???????
Actually, they did not take three years of her life. She was found guilty of four crimes and sentenced to that three years for those four crimes.
Richard,
What do you think of the fairness and legality of these two rulings?
1) Each lie told in the single Universal Studio interrogation was counted as a separate count.
2) No Miranda was read to Casey at Universal Studio. Should the lies even be allowed as evidence?
Your name suits you well.
NTS-Another “ghawd-blessed” comment. (from THM 2010). How many hours of any given day do you spend down in that rabbit hole?
“What the clear indication of this procedural defense means is that had the transcript originally been provided to the lower courts; the Florida Supreme Court would likely have agreed that the oral sentence controls and Mr. Stang had 24 more years in prison to complete.”
You assume that the transcripts would have cured the jurisdictional issue. I would post what I opine about this conclusion, but you’re too much of a flamer and I don’t really care to hear your response. That is if you have time to get your head out of the State Attorney’s ass.
ToyJustice….brilliantly stated. I agree.
Good on you, Richard! I saw you on The Today Show today and you may have another part time career as one of their legal analysts. You are not cookie cutter and it showed. Thanks for this detailed analysis of all the issues involved.
Personally, it’s bugged me about no probation. I don’t understand how “probation” can be served while in custody where your every move is being monitored. I thought the terms of probation are to determine whether you are able to behave yourself, with restrictions, while out in the real world facing everyday challenges.
Richard,
I don’t believe you solemnly swear.
I am perplexed by the legal arguments you put forth here Mr. Hornsby. I truly thought you knew the law better than that.
It is very apparrent that the law here is as follows; No one can dispute that Casey Anthony, while residing at the Orange County jail, was not vacationing. Ergo, as any prosecutor, defence lawyer, judge, cop, security guard and/or tourist will tell you, come on vacation, leave on probation. Obviously the previous statement would be upheld not only by the Supreme Court by more importantly the various tourisim bodies across the land. Therefore this is law that should be applied here.
What the hell are you talking about?
Yeah, I wondered that too, lol
I am just perplexed.
Excellent Richard. I am irked to death by Foghorn Leghorn shooting his mouth off, I am appalled at how disrepectful he is of Judge Strickland calling him Mr., etc., seems Strickland had their # all along, at what media whores the Defense is, calling them out on it! Baez better muzzle, I can just hear it, BUT But But Judge Judge Judge, this young woman has paid her debt to society! PUKE!
I am delighted to read that just because Judge S does not have jurisdiction now, does NOT mean that another Judge won’t uphold his ruling.
I hoped this gets kicked back to Judge Perry who presided over the “Soap Opera~!”
Mr Strickland made his bed when he made his comments and made his phone call to the blogger. All Mason did was reported it. As a matter of fact, the self recused Judge said that Mason did the right thing and did his duty. I don’t see how shooting the messenger and calling him names is productive, but you have a right to your opinion. I too hope it gets kicked back to Judge Perry.
NTS-“Mr Strickland” made his bed? How do you know that? Did MD say he slept in it shortly before or after he made it? Mr Mason didn’t report it. Mr Marinade wrote about the phone call and was hush-hush about the maid service. He hates to tip anyone for anything. When you self recuse it’s not too terribly difficult especially if it’s after the fact. Doing one’s duty is not the question. While gun laws are in place to protect everyone, messengers get shot more often. You know what I mean… being in the wrong place at the wrong time and all that jazz. Judge Perry got kicked back? Hardly. He’ll just self recuse and take one for the Gipper.
Despite his dalliance with one Dave Knetchel, aka moment of madness. I thought Strickland was impressive when he presided over this extremely complex case. So I’d find it really difficult to believe when he signed the revised order, he didnt anticipate just what’s playing out now and that he fully intends to recuse himself yet again and turn this over to another Judge.
Some guy/gal remotely and erroneously adminstering a probation order by checking the inmate hasn’t scaled the wall is just not acceptable.
Not Judge Stricklands job imo to check up on the status of every probation order he doles out, so here’s hoping Lamar does appoint a bright young thing to defend this motion. Even if its just to demonstrate that arrogant b*******s who show neither the system nor the Court any respect…….do not, a decent judicial system make.
I found Judge S to be extremely biased starting with his comment about Kc and the truth being strangers. He could not get control of the tes documents because he is not respected. Judge Perry had to take control of that situation. His demeaner throughout was bias. It was obvious over and over and over. He was right to recuse himself, but now, he is wrong come back and yearn for that fame again. He is playing to the camera’s and it is quite obvious……IMO
On the other hand, if Orange County citizens want tabloid Judges that play to the likes of Nancy Grace (who continues to reference the National Enquire), then that is their right and I am fine with it as long as the US Constitution is followed. I myself could never live in Florida after what I have seen over the last 3 years. MOO
No matter who presided over this case I fear YOU would have found fault NTS
Your reputation precedes you as does your peculiar attachment to Miss Anthony. Keep on keepin on NTS, distorting facts, inventing your own reality and essentially being one of the most prolific pain in the arses, that ever graced a blog about the Caylee Anthony case.
I dont think I have ever seen a comment from you where the victim in this case got a mention. That says so much.
I doubt that most people in the state of Florida would want you either, NTS.
Typical response from a majority opinionator. Rather than speaking of facts, you make things up. I see why you are confused. I hope you find your way. good luck
How do you know Judge Strickland is not respected? Have you examined his entire professional career or just based your judgement on this case? I actually think he was actually very patient with the defense. Judge Strickland has every right to comment on this case same as you, Baez, Mason, or Ashton.
Well, it did take an awful long time to get those 4 boxes of documents under control…. The Judge ordered that the defense could look at them, the Tes just totally disrespected the judge and would not allow it. That was not disrespect for the law, that was disrespect for the Judge. Once Perry took it over, he took control and the defense was allowed to look at the docs. That Judge S persona does not carry respect, its more like a judge judy show or something like that. Its not really respectful. sorry
Tim had good reason not to allow Baez and Co. free access to the files of some 4000 volunteers, who had a reasonable expectation of privacy by the way, and of which ONLY 32 were any where near Hopespring Drive.
Baez was given the files on the 32, but that wasn’t good enough. He wanted to not only see all 4000 but make copies, , and when given access to all, for the sole purpose of viewing only, he sent in a crew to copy each and every document which was in violation of the court’s ruling, and was sent packing!
On another occasion Baez just didn’t show up, and when he did he stayed no more than an hour or so and left because of the media’s presence, he said. lol What was he afraid of? The cameras catching him stuffing files into his pockets? Whatever. He had ample opportunity and blew it.
I’d have to refer back to the docs and don’t have the time to do so, this morning, but as I recall it was pretty much Baez’s sniveling about the TES files that caused Brad Conway to quit representing the Anthonys. As the attorney for the Anthonys, Brad was given the same access to the files as Baez had, but Brad followed through. Baez did not.
Hi Autumn-It’s always good to see you. Baez brings new meaning “to all talk and no action”. Of course at trial we learned that part of his lackluster performance during pretrial was because he knew in advance that the child drowned in the family pool and that his client lied as a result of her incestuous relationship with the person who more than likely buried the child in the swamp; a place they never threw their family pets but instead held a family Memorial Service in the back yard for their fallen dogs. The all American dysfunctional family.
When Mr Baez said, “Something’s not right about this family” jurors believed him even when the hysterical grandmother said, “Something’s wrong. I can’t find my granddaughter.”
The poor searchers were the only ones who believed finding the child dead or alive was their duty. When Mrs Anthony came to her senses she asked the media to “get off your asses and look for Caylee.” Of course we know she and Casey both asked friend and foe to call their cellphones should they hear anything. As we all know Cindy’s text to Casey prior to finding her at Tony’s on July 16, 2008 was, “We’ve got a prob.”
The searchers were unnecessary and unwelcomed but eventually they were fodder for unreasonable doubt. Amidst chaos in Casey’s world there was always that light at the end of the tunnel.
Great informative article Mr. Hornsby. Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to write & post it. I’m glad you’re here to explain the legal ins and outs, because my head is spinning.
Around and Around we go, this merry-go-round is giving me motion sickness and seems like it will never end.
Enlight of possible Double Jeopardy, you should have double-dared them to double back and double up. But Please don’t egg them on, I do not like green eggs and ham.
I personally think the whole probation isssue will be a waste of time. Not only will Baez argue the issues you raised, I think he will also argue that Casey is under mental health care and is entitled to keep the same therapist/doctor(if she is not in Florida),just as she was entitled to keep Baez when she became indigent. Could she still be placed on probation if she is living outside of their jurisdiction? Could she serve her probation out of state?
Plessinger said it is not unusual for some inmates to serve probation while in jail awaiting final disposition on separate charges.
“Not only is it common, we’ve never heard of a case where probation stops because someone is in jail awaiting trial — remember there’s no conviction at that point,” Plessinger wrote her e-mail.
Mr. Hornsby..I would like your opinion in regards to how..after equating
all time served…20+ days after an NOT GUILTY verdict of the highest
profile case Orange County Fl has seen..and extending World Wide..Nearly
2 wks after the World..televised the release of Casey Anthony..FOLLOWED
her by helicopter down Orange Ave Orlando Fl…Watched til the wee hours
of the morning to see her board a jet plane..to fly off into the sun rise..FAR
FROM FLORIDA…Did someone to just realize she needs to come back for
probation???? A little far fetched eh?
Not only that..but a probation that was already served in jail..COMPLETED
Jan 24, 2011?
Did strickland spend some recent time in blog world again? Or as a matter
of fact..Ashton…was asked about that VERY TOPIC in one of his $$$$$
interviews..which I don’t recall his response..I am trying to find it..and the
date.
For those haters whom would be willing to give up our Constitutional Rights, to see KC get the lethal injection..I am quite sure they are
thrilled.
For me, I would like to retain my rights.
YOU SAY:::If you thought she was such a danger to society that you were committed enough to have her executed, I think you should be committed enough to at least try and have the Department of Corrections execute a simple probation sentence on her for one year.
____________________________
I am a little skeptical about the State implying they want
nothing to do with this. Whats really behind this?
Another trip down memory lane?
IMO
Strickland signs it ..and leaves town..The State not backing it..
at least in the public eye…Risk bringing her back here…for
probation already served..Which I would be hard pressed to
believe that it was completely overlooked. hmmmmmmm
makes you wonder!
However, can’t be any worse than them bringing this case
to court as first degree premeditated murder with at DP attached..
With junk proof..they tried to make fit the charge!
Bravo Snoop! Perfectly stated!!
To me this whole probation thing looks like the judicial system is being a sore loser. Baez and Mason won, live with it.
Kim, lol. I’m still stuck on Krop’s assessment of her. He maintains that she’s mentally healthy (falls within the “normal” ranges) whereas SHE and her defense team now insist she’s being treated for her mental illness? Which is it? Is she ill or isn’t she? It cracks me up!
Also, I’m anxious to see how this probation matter plays out, as well as Mason’s insistence that JS recuse himself. The way I understand it is that Strickland filed the original motion (2010?) which explains why it says that Casey appeared with counsel, Andrea Lyon. He merely added the words regarding her probation to start after her release from jail. Do you know more about this? I haven’t seen the motion as it was filed yesterday.
Autumn, I also find it interesting Dr Krop made the rounds on Dr Drew etc. Soon after the verdict he was stating how “normal” she is. Kind of interesting her Dr would be out there stating how “normal” she is around the same time Baez is meeting with media executives. How marketable would she be if he stated she had some real issues and would need intense therapy? Now that ABC/CBS/NBC have pulled the plug and boycott is prevalent on social media Baez is reportedly saying all of a sudden she needs therapy.
Three weeks ago her Dr said she was “normal” now her attorney says she needs therapy. Can you say $ympathy card?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w2Uw2RTtBs
Ah-Ha-It would appear that Ms Anthony’s psychaitrist did what he was asked and it would also appear that he was happy to do it. He reported to all viewers that his patient was “normal” and that she had no known mental illness. He’s submitting his billable hours and is anticipating payment once his client is gainfully back into society manipulating, deceiving and separating others from their money-a concrete look at how to rob peter to pay paul.
Poor fellow. I can’t decide if he’s a stooge or a chump.
Oh deal with Anonymous…You were wrong. I knew you’d say that. It’s just too bad that Dr. Krop is a well-respected, forensic psychologist in the state of Florida and his assignment was to help Casey in the penalty phase iF she were convicted so obviously saying that she’s “normal” wouldn’t help her IF that was the case. It would have been in Casey best interest to say she has some type of mental illness not normal, you silly goose. 😀
Again Anonymous you were proven wrong just like I said you would be.
I suggest you take a good look at who you think you are. If you want to sing the praises of Ms Anthony you go right ahead and do so. Leave me out of it.
I think the therapy thing buys her time. not only with the public but the media and the lawsuits against her. Not that she shouldn’t get some type of therapy because that kind of “normal” is lacking something . Also with an emotional health diagnosis, Baez can assist her in applying for medicaid and disability, so she can have money coming in. Maybe make some extra money with photo sales. The civil attorney cannot have Casey talking/interviewing at all right now due to all the civil suits. Would be kind of hard to envoke the 5th if one was out blabbering in the media.
Autumn,
I don’t think anything in this case surprises me anymore. The defense has been consistent with vacillating. Caylee missing/kidnapped, Someone else killed Caylee, Caylee drowned. Telling the nation they need to respect and accept the jury verdict emphasized with a one finger salute, but we’re going to appeal the lying convictions. Baez the criminal defense lawyer, but maybe also the agent/media lawer(might be hard to remain objective and focus on the client’s best interest).
I don’t know any more than anyone else on the probation issue, other than Mr. Hornsby’s explanation and hearing another Florida lawyer who stated that it is not uncommon for some inmates to serve their probation in jail(usually in drug cases where the inmate is undergoing substance abuse treatment). I don’t know if Casey was undergoing any type of extensive treatment/therapy program in jail.
I agree and nobody paid attention to Jose Baez contradicting himself in his opening-and-closing defense statements either; like Strickland’s order was ignored also! Baez’s opening trial statement was, “Caylee was a case of an “accidental” drowning, in Baez’s closing statement he states, “NOBODY” knows how Caylee died and NOBODY probably ever will” so which is it?
the defendant has a right of appeal…the state does not.
Cheney Mason has a right to free speech…whether you like it or not.
you really need to get over this stuff and move on.
are you going to waste the rest of your life on this case? Is this what you do now that Oprah is finished?
steve,
LOL. Wow that was Tough Luv. But some people need to hear it. Some have a Huge Emotional Investment in Casey’s Case but it’s time to ‘Let It Go’ and reclaim their lives. I wonder how much emotional baggage Perry is carrying — we’ll find out tomorrow.
Wow TJ and Steve,
Apparently you guys don’t have a life either, because you keep checking & posting on here like the rest of us-LOL
you got me! I just hang around here so i get to talk to girls. Maybe even hot ones.
Are you as hot as Casey?
Awww Steve,
Probably not, I have a daughter Casey’s age and I’ve never lost track of one of my kids….does that make me hot???-LOL
A daughter Casey’s age!?!…Are you retired? or just in a job that gives you lots of free time…like Human Resources?
Yeah Steve,
A daughter Casey’s age, she’s much hotter than Casey with a full time job. I’m not retired, I just don’t have to work anymore. I lived and worked in NJ since I was 14, saved my money, paid off my home, sold it and moved to a less expensive state. Own my house with 7 acres and a rental property, I have no car payments or credit cards, only utilities and cell bill so I have tons of free time until school starts(I volunteer a few hours). Won’t hit the big Five-O for another 3 years. Life is great for me! I get to read and write as much as I want.
Autumn, Winter, Summer & Spring..whoever you are today??
You really should read further..In Dr. Krop’s report he says he see signs of PTSD, that’s Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
You really crack me up. 😀
Well why don’t you people hand Casey the key to the state of Florida, because she has been such a model citizen? Nobody has served probation while in jail and if thats the case her probation ordered her to stay away from criminals, get a job to earn at least 20.00 per month, so than if served in jail that was a violation of probation! Where are the documents that a probation officer ever even seen her in jail?! Another problem with this judicial system; how do you get time off for good behavior when you are not even incarcerated in population; was Casey planning to have a confrontation with herself in protective custody?! Seems to me that Casey is Florida’s God, because she walks across water without being made to accept responsibility for her actions! If she walks without having to do probation, as Casey and Baez clearly stood in front of Strickland and heard him say, “following her release, if she was acquitted of murder charges” Than those people in seats now will not see a vote from me later!
http://www.wesh.com/casey-anthony-extended-coverage/28752422/detail.html#ixzz1TzBgdYTw
Casey expected to report to probation office Thursday by 10am
Casey will not have to return for court appearance, hearing on issue set for Friday.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/03/casey-anthony-will-not-have-to-return-to-florida-for-court-appearance.html
What good is going to come from having her serve probation? Will it WILL give the media some hype, it will let others feel the thrill of gotcha.
Will it make her a better person, probably not. Will it rehabilitate her, probably not. Will it alter the chances of her re offending, probably not, And, it wont bring back Caylee..
It WILL cost the taxpayers a lot of money. Seriously, the taxpayers paying for probation for $300 in bad checks on what I believe was a family members account?
It was bad checks on her friend Amy’s account. Casey almost cleaned out her friend’s account while Amy was on vacation & Amy let Casey use her car because Casey’s stinky car got towed. How’s that for gratitude?
You’re right, Florida taxpayers are probably tired of paying for anything more concerning Casey Anthony. I don’t think probation will alter her chances of re-offending either.
Annetteaa1-It was Amy H. account for which she was convicted of economic crimes and served 412 days and sentenced to one year probation. (see videos of her signing and cashing checks and her appearance before Judge Strickland in January 2010).
One has to look at Casey Anthony’s behavior not as a one time event but as a lifestyle-a mindset. She lies, steals and is a sexual predator. Presently those who are in “control” of Ms Anthony are at least attempting to mitigate these behaviors and hope for the best. Ms Anthony, like others before her who have been charged with killing family members, is a dangerous person. Why anyone would fuss over the costs to taxpayers relative to the cost of probation is almost laughable if it were not so serious. At some point in time you will have to make an effort to connect the crime and the criminal.
How do you square Judge Strickland’s actions as described in Ms. Anthony’s Motion to Quash with canons 2 and 3 of Florida’s Code of Judicial Ethics? Judge Strickland’s appearances on Nancy Grace and on local news stations are shocking. Lawson Lamar would be doing himself no favors by throwing his support behind this judge. Your arguments are sound–except in regards to your belief that an appellate authority would disregard DOC’s supervision and termination of probation–your seeming belief that it is in the State of Florida’s best interests to continue this charade is absurd.
Hi Richard,
I am hoping that you can explain to me why the State Atty’s have stated that they will not be attending the hearing tomr. I am totally confused about their position on this. Casey did plead guilty to the felony check fraud charges. If I were Amy Huizenga, who had her bank account completely drained by Casey, I would expect that Judge Strickland’s oral pronouncement placing Casey on One Year of Supervised Probation to be served “once released” to be upheld.
I don’t understand how “probation” can be served while in “protective” custody where your every move is being monitored. I thought the terms of probation are to determine whether you are able to behave yourself, with restrictions, while out in the real world facing everyday challenges. Casey did not look for a job nor did she pay any court ordered court costs or pay for the monthly probation supervision costs. She did not submit a DNA sample or submit to random drug and/or ETOH testing. She basically did jail time and got a 2fer credit for one year probation.
Whether Judge “Paper Tiger” Perry decides in agreement with Strickland’s oral pronouncement or not, I maintain that it would be the fairest judgment for him to do so. When I consider the sentences that he handed out to the “crazy lady”, the single finger salute guy and the well behaved legitimate protester outside the court building, any other decision other than upholding a year’s probation for Casey’s 6 felonies will be an injustice to the victim as well as all of us “regular Joe” citizens, who you well know would definitely serve the full year of supervised probation.
But back to my question to you Richard. I will be very disillusioned and angry if the SA’s are no-show at the hearing. I can imagine that Amy will be too. How dare they have so little interest at this point in time of representing the victim of Casey’s fraud? If what is being reported on TV is accurate and they truly have no further interest in this issue, then I will have lost all of the abundance of respect that I have formerly held for these individuals. WHY would they not be supportive of Judge Strickland’s motion? I truly do not understand what their motivation would be to basically diss Casey’s victim. Please enlighten me, Richard. Thanks in advance.
Looks like the Judge is on his own this time. SAO not interested, Amy not interested. I don’t think the victim ever went without her money in this case. I think the bank covered it IIRC. I believe the victim was dragged into this mess by the State. She got her money back and probably would have never guessed in a million years that someone would spend 3 years in prison for stealing 650.00,,, It prolly cost us more than that in taxes to keep her in jail. I could understand the victim being very angry if they never got their money back. I am not saying the victim should forgive the perp, just saying 3 years in prison for someone never losing their money is way too harsh. Not sure if it is out of the ordinary though… My opinion only
Notthatsmart-Ms Anthony was in prison awaiting her murder trial. It just so happens that someone came forward and said, “Hey, you have someone in jail who I believe stole $650.00 from me. I loaned her my car and she drained my checking account. Can anyone help me?” They certainly did. Eighteen months later, while awaiting trial for Felony Murder in the First Degree, Ms Anthony is charged and convicted of Economic Crimes (see the court records). She is a convicted felon and to the best of my understanding Mr Baez reimbursed the BOA (the BOA was duty bound to reimburse Ms Amy H.) “….just saying 3 years in prison for someone never losing their money is way too harsh.” As always NTS you never seem to be able to connect the dots-but by the gods you’ve got a hairbrained explanation for everything you don’t know about Fl v Anthony. Get it straight-we are discussing CRIMES-laws that were broken. Who gives a crap about what it costs Florida taxpayers to maintain safe neighborhoods and the protection of the good and decent people who want to live there.
Casey Anthony was NOT in prison at that point in time. She was in custody at the Orange County Jail awaiting trial. One can only be sent to PRISON after being found guilty of a crime and sentenced to PRISON. At the time that you reference in your comment, Casey Anthony had NOT been convicted of any crime.
Hey NTS, nice to see you!
As I recall, Casey made full restitution to Amy before the check fraud hearing…And you’re right, the State did drag the victim into this case. It was all to attack her credibility if she were to take the stand in her own defense in her murder trial. To the State it was imperative that Casey be a convicted felon, a 6-time convicted felon at that.
The total of her economic crimes were close to $700 which is unbelievable for a 1st time offender to wound up with 13 felonies. Unheard of! Casey actually signed her own name to a check at Target IIRC. I’d like to know, at which point are the merchants who accepted these checks responsible? Did they not ask for ID? Did Casey have AH’s driver’s license? Does Casey really look that much like AH?
I’m not trying to blame Target, I’m just amazed that it was so easy. I seldom write checks to department stores so I don’t know how that works. With that said, if these were my stolen checks, I would be very angry to find out that the merchant didn’t ask for ID.
As for verbal orders superceding written orders? In the medical field, written orders win out over verbal orders every time. Ask any lawyer who’s ever represented a doctor or hospital in a malpractice case? I think in the realm of Law it should be the same just as in medicine and other professions.
JBM,
How do you figuire that the state dragged Amy into this case? The state didn’t introduce Amy to Casey. The state didn’t text Amy to say Caylee is missing. The state didn’t make Casey steal Amy’s checks.
All to attach her credibility? What credibility, she was lying about her “missing” child, her job,her nanny, her education. So you think people who steal/forge shouldn’t be convicted. How do you know if Amy didn’t want to press charges? I’m sure Amy was ticked off and felt betrayed by a friend she trusted and entrusted her car. Have you ever been a victim of theft? It leave you feeling violated.
Just because someone makes restitution before their court date doesn’t mean that charges are dropped, especially when it’s a felony charge. Casey didn’t make restitution to Amy, she made restitution to the bank.
How many times did you want her to offend before you consider it valid to convict her? Commiting even a single offense can result in multiple charges, that is not unusual and not all 1st time offenders get off easy.
Judge Strictland adjuncted her guilty of six charges with a sentence of 412 days, much less than what he could have given her.
It is easy to do this at many department stores and Casey knew it. These stores rarely check IDs, but that doesn’t give Casey the green light to do it. She had been doing it for quite some time with her mother’s own checks and credit cards. Not to mention stealing from her own grandparents’ account.
It might make you happy to know that if the bad check is reported to the store, the cashiers that accept these checks usually gets fired.
I am interested what it was that Amy wanted to say on the stand when she was stopped. I wish wesh would have asked.
What the hell difference does it make to you what Amy H. wanted to say? Knowing that her reputation took quite a hit is enough for most viewers but not for you. Let these young people alone and allow them to gather themselves together and march on beyond the horror of knowing an acquaintance killed her beautiful daughter.
Do you ever realize that the only person you have never said a discouraging word about is the defendant? You act as if LE plucked her out of the air and in so doing they inadvertantly threw her child in the swamp and regretably the poor mother was reduced to lying about her child’s whereabouts. Had it not been for the actions of LE, the prosecutors, the death investigators, Dr G, forensic experts, scorned boyfriends and hapless and witless friends, Ms Anthony would not have been charged. Why? according to you a murder never took place.
ooohhh Anonymous…snippy, snippy…You really should check yourself. Your true colors are showing and it’s not pretty.
What the “he-LL” is not very nice or respectful. If you can’t join in discussion without being so combative perhaps you should take a Xanax and call your doctor. Maybe Dr. Krop has an opening? just saying..
Strange. I’ve never seen anyone more combative than you, JB.
Ohhhh dirt…. That is totally scarey that Juliet lewis is part of that. wierd
Juliet Lewis never existed.
Steve-One of the funniest comments I have ever read on a blog “devoted” to Fl v Anthony. Thanks.
Right Autumn
..and none of these doctors have interviewed Casey Anthony…so who am I to believe? Them or Dr. Harry Krop, the doctor who actually met with Casey Anthony several times while she was behind bars?
I’ll go with the good doctor who actually met her in person before writing a psychological report as opposed to a bunch of whoever’s who haven’t.
BTW, Thank you Richard… (wink)
Oh and btw,
Dr. Krop, like most psychiatrist are held to secrecy due to HIPPA laws.
He was put in a bad situation.. and he wasn’t the first doctor either faced with such a situation. Remember the Mendez brothers?
Autumn,
You’re asking if Dr. Krop was conned by Casey Anthony??? Wow!
I seriously doubt it. Dr. Krop has 20 years experience so I think he’d know if were being conned.
Personally, I find your reaction to Dr. Krop’s report to be a tad bit paranoid. Perhaps it’s because you and Anonymous’s fantasy psychological evaluations of the past 3 years didn’t match the professional report that Dr. Krop provided.
That’s the only thing I can see. Believe it or not, had I read a report that matched your’s and Anonymous’, I would have finally been convinced. I wouldn’t dare take it that far as to argue one doctor’s report is wrong when there are no other psychological reports released to compare.
It’s really kind of silly the way you are sticking to your guns no matter what’s being presented. If you are wrong, you’re wrong.
“I seriously doubt it. Dr. Krop has 20 years experience so I think he’d know if were being conned.”
With all due respect, you say “I think”. That’s you’re problem JB. You “think”, but you don’t know.
You dismiss whatever information is offensive to those things you think, such as you “think” that due to his 20 years of experience Krop couldn’t be fooled. I disagree, and offer you this challenge, SHOW ME whatever evidence/proofs there be that PROVE a psychopath/narcissist is unable to “con” such a Phd. who possesses 20 years experience, after a mere 20 hour assessment, and I’ll eat my words along with my boots!
The consensus is clear. Narcissism is difficult to diagnose, and more difficult to treat, and many an experienced psychologist has been fooled. Show me information to the contrary.
“Expert” Krop, in his initial assessment, did not detect psychopathy in Rollings and was ready to walk out the door with his “normal” diagnosis until Rollings stopped him and confessed. Granted, Krop may have learned much from his mistaken assessment, but many more years doesn’t make him infallible. No body is. Not even you.
Krop’s report doesn’t agree with what Krop is now saying, which should have been included in his report, but had it been he wouldn’t have done the defense such a good service, now would he? He can’t have it both ways, JB.
“I find your reaction to Dr. Krop’s report to be a tad bit paranoid. Perhaps it’s because you and Anonymous’s fantasy psychological evaluations of the past 3 years didn’t match the professional report that Dr. Krop provided”.
Fantasy? You really should think before you speak, JB. I, for one, couldn’t care less at this point about what Krop has to say. He has well destroyed whatever credibility he has with me in contradicting himself and his own biased report.
Aside from that, I’ve a few family members who have been in the field far longer than Krop (one has held a Master’s for more than 30 years, more than a few of which were spent running an entire mental health facility, another teaches criminal behavior and psychology at a well known University) who have endlessly harped about the psychopathy of Casey Anthony throughout the course of the past three years. It’s often been said that they would so love to get their hands on Casey Anthony, to STUDY her, for even among psychopaths, she’s “unique”. So perhaps I am a bit biased, trusting the opinions of those KNOWN to me with proven track records, none of whom would have offered their services to the defense!
Tell me, if you know, JB, how many experts did the defense have to go through (kick off emails to as they did with Simms?) before they received a favorable response from Krop? Do you know how many turned the defense down? Maybe, if you kick off an email to Baez he’ll tell you, and maybe it will be the truth he speaks.
As for you comment about HIPPA let me say, if given the choice between exposing a mass murderer and my license to practice, I’d have to forfeit my license. That’s how I roll.
By the way, I am quite honored to be likened to Anonymous! Thanks, JB!
Ditto, Teresa! Well said!
Mr. Hornsby, your reliance on Brooks v. State for the proposition that probation is tolled while a defendant is in jail is completely misplaced. That case and the other cases in that line are all clearly dealing with situations where a defendant is serving a prison sentence in another case. Casey Anthony was not. Once she was constructively released on the jail portion of the check case, she was not under any other sentence, so there was no sentence to toll the start of probation. Having read through Florida case law and statutes, I can find no authority for either the judge or DOC to decide that probation would wait and then start after she was released from a pre-trial detention.
Even if I was wrong, which I am not, Judge Strickland’s oral pronouncement that her probation is not to start until she is released from jail controls the start of her probationary period. You thow around the term “constructive release.” There is no such thing as constructive release from jail, you are either in jail or out.
How are you not wrong? Those cases all address situations where a defendant has more than one active sentence, which was not the case here. The term “constructive,” as any lawyer ought to know, applies in a situation where the legal reality is different from the physical reality. So she was not physically released from jail because she was still on a no bond hold, but she was legally released from the jail portion of the check sentence. Aren’t indefinite sentences illegal? So how could Judge Strickland order her to be on probation at some indefinite time in the future if and when she ever got out after resolving the murder charge? You can’t order a sentence to run consecutively to a sentence that doesn’t exist yet.
Thank you Mr. Hornsby for the clarification, I was thinking along the same lines as Sarah. But what about the Double Jeopardy issue, if the probation department considers her probation served and she has a letter releasing her, is that technicality enough to have the oral and ammended order vacated? During the time she was considered on probation in jail, if she cooresponded with another inmate, would that be a probation violation?
I just have a feeling that the Judge is not going to place her back on probation. I assume Judge Perry will follow the law….which law, I have no idea.
At this point, whether she violated her probation is a moot point. She’s been terminated off probation, so any allegations of violations can no longer be made.
And I would fully agree that since she has completed probation per DOC’s letter, it would be a Double Jeopardy violation to have her serve it again.
Richard I have enjoyed reading your blog very much and have a question. I read that administrative probation can only be given to an offender after half of the probation has been served. Is this always the case or are exceptions made ? From what I gather, administrative probation is nothing more than a records check by the state, once a year. Is this true, or does the offender have to do more to be in compliance ? Thanks.
Thank you. As for your questions about Administrative Probation, you are correct. But if I was a betting man, I say he splits the baby and places her on Administrative Probation to save face.
But between you and me, the Judge knows that would technically be illegal as FS 948.012(3) requires her to do half of her “regular” probation before she can be placed on “Administrative Probation.”
Also, here are the statistics for supervision types to show how infrequently Administrative Probation is given (1.1% of all probationers.)
http://www.dc.state.fl.us/pub/annual/0910/stats/csa_month.html
As I expected, Judge Perry seems bent on singling out Ms. Anthony. Besides the defense team and Ms. Anthony, Judge Perry was the biggest winner in this trial. Her acquittal saved him being reversed by a higher court. He loaded the dice so heavily in favor of the state that he should have quietly bowed out of this one and counted his lucky stars. True to form though he seems now to be intent on finding any possible reason to further punish Casey Anthony. If I represented her I would be working overtime drafting a civil suit against the state. Specifically, the decision makers in the SAO and the OCSO should be held accountable for wrongfully charging and incarcerating this woman. I’d sue them all and make sure Judge Stan Strickland received the attention he seems desperately to want.
Ron P,
So you expected OCSO & SAO to do nothing in this case? Based on what?
Suppose the victim was one of your friends, neighbor, or family member instead of Caylee. Instead of Casey, the person last (by their own admission) with the “missing” was the significant other, a finacee, or infatuated friend. Let’s say almost all the circumstances where similar to this case. A month plus lying, the wildgoose chase, the decomp car odor, etc.etc. Would you want law enforcement to do nothing? Would you want them to say, “Nothing here no need to investigate, any evidence is probably long gone or degraded so we’ll just investigate tips and sightings that are called in”?
Then a half year later the skeletal remains of the “missing” are found dumped in the woods near the significant other’s home. Similar circumstances. Bones scattered, some bones and items in plasitc bags, and duct tape attached to the hair with portions near the mouth and nose of the skull. Would you want law enforcement to say ” Oh we’ve seen and heard of this before, it definately is an accident so we don’t even need to worry about recovering all the remains?” Is that how you hope law enforcement would handle a case?
Casey was originally charged with child endangerment and lying to law enforcement about her “missing” child, she was not charged with homicide until various pieces of evidence came back and consistent with the child being dead. The case was brought before the Grand Jury and the Grand Jury returned the indictment- 7 counts which included capitol murder. Do you want to sue the Grand Jury too?
The prosecutors initially dropped the 1st degree, then re-instated it after the remains were found. The prosecutors believed the duct tape caused the death, an action that they believed showed forethought, because with each placement of duct tape a person could reverse their action. Their belief, based on what they saw and the medical examiner’s report was not unreasonable based on the totality of the circumstances and evidence. Because they believe premeditation they charged 1st degree homicide, the prosecutors did not charge the death penalty. First degree homicide punishment was already set up by the state of Florida, not the prosecutors. Punishment could be death or life in prison for someone convicted. While I don’t believe in the death penalty and would never vote for it, I do understand why the prosecutors brought the First Degree charge. I also thought it was a waste time because the family of the victim was also the family of the accused and they would not want the death penalty or even life inprisonment.
The economic crimes that were charged later, & they also had to be investigated. Law enforcement had to obtain the evidence(the cancelled checks, videos), not just the victim’s statement. Most banks require that the victim file a police report. I know Bank of America required my daughter to do it when someone wiped out her checking account. When she supplied them with the police report, they refunded her money. Just because someone makes restitution, doesn’t mean the charges just go away. I suppose you would do nothing if someone had stolen/cashed your checks? Did you want Judge Strickland to give her a pass? Maybe she can sue Amy for being a vengeful friend or the bank for wanting restitution.
Might as well sue the state of Florida too, for the Sunshine Law. All the documents that were released is because the media used the law to obtain them and report on them. How about suing the media for being overly interested in this case?
Unless the lying convictions are over turned, the time Casey spent in jail was for the crimes she was convicted of. Do I think she should do probation now that she has a letter saying it was completed..No, but I’m not a lawyer or a judge.
You seem to want to sue everyone as if they all had a personal vendetta against Casey, went into her home, took Caylee, made her lie,etc. If Caylee had died of drowning as Baez proposed, then that makes Casey the ringleader of this circus. She continued to claim she was protecting her daughter, of what, when the child was already dead? Casey sat in protective custody afraid of who, when the child was already dead? With whom did this case all begin? What do you hold Casey accountable for? It seems to be nothing.
Hi kimpossible!
Your account of how State vs. Casey Anthony played out tellingly glosses over quite a bit.
First of all though let me address your hypothetical, “[s]uppose the victim was one of your friends, neighbor (sic), or family member (sic) instead of Caylee.” I should be the last person under those circumstances to direct the actions of law enforcement and the state attorney’s office. I would understandably be unable to divorce myself from emotional reactions. I might make all sorts of false accusations and trample on any number of people’s rights in order to satisfy my emotional and irrational needs. What I would personally want and what citizens of Orange County expect of law enforcement in such a case may be very different indeed.
Now, as a dispassionate citizen my expectations are more clear. I expect thoroughness and fairness. I expect the sheriff’s office to respond to a 911 call like Cindy Anthony’s and investigate thoroughly and fairly. Remember her call was that “it smells like a dead body has been in the damn car.” During the trial it came out that none of the responding officers noted that smell or investigated the car. They did however question Casey Anthony who began lying to them immediately. The detectives in charge suspected her of some sort of wrong doing after quickly determining that her story of an abduction was built on lies.
In this situation I expect law enforcement to do what is required of them. They should have immediately investigated the car. Knowing Casey Anthony was lying, they should have arrested her and informed her of her rights to remain silent and have counsel present. Did you notice that Yuri Mellich described the questioning of Ms. Anthony as “interrogation” in the press conference after her acquittal? During the trial, the SAO and OCSO lied when they claimed that she was not in custody and not being interrogated at Universal Studios. This is the first instance of her civil rights being violated. When Judge Perry allowed that interrogation to be presented to the jury, he violated another–her right to a fair trial.
I expect, as a dispassionate citizen, that evidence collected and presented at trial be authentic and untainted by fraud. The majority of circumstantial “evidence” collected and presented was inauthentic and even fraudulent. Experts who testify that 100% of drownings are reported are not experts. If an unreported drowning did occur then how would the expert know to adjust their calculations? There’s so much more! Forensic evidence was manufactured, mishandled, un-expertly examined and reported on, and intentionally presented to the jury even when the state attorney knew it was fraudulent. Not only should Jeff Ashton and Linda Drane Burdick be sued but they should face sanctions from the Florida Bar Association for these unethical tactics. The claim that Casey Anthony made 84 computer searches for chloroform alone is enough to conclusively demonstrate that the SAO and OCSO were neither thorough nor fair in their pursuit of “justice.”
Oh boy, the list could go on and on. Remember George Anthony’s testimony for the prosecution about his fantastic memory of minute details from June 16th? Only savants remember details of unremarkable events months later. For George Anthony that day was obviously not unremarkable. It was “forever fixed” in his memory because he understood at that time that it was the last day he would see her alive. I expect law enforcement and state attorneys to not use lies in their efforts to inject lethal poison into those they suspect of wrong doing. Surely, you’ll agree with me there.
I’m all for locking dangerous criminals away to protect society from them. I’m all for punishing those who lie to law enforcement when they are investigating a missing child. There is no legitimate evidence that Casey Anthony is a dangerous criminal. In fact, a lot of testimony presented by the state was that she was a loving mother, a moderate drinker, and a generally kind and considerate friend. She also told many lies both before and after June 2008. She lied so often and with such detail that more thorough detectives and fairer-minded prosecutors would have recognized a severe pathology that was wholly unhelpful in determining her guilt or innocence in her daughter’s death.
Punishing the theft of her friend’s money through check fraud during June and July of 2008 is something I expect as a dispassionate citizen. Setting a bond at 500,000 dollars for such petty crimes however is not what I expect from a fair judge. But even that isn’t as egregious as holding her later without bond while awaiting her murder trial. I happily accept that Casey Anthony was convicted and punished for her lies that hindered a missing child investigation but the end-to-end sentences and the stacking of counts by Judge Perry was anything but typical and I suspect those sentences will be overturned.
Judges may not be sued for violations of civil rights or for any reasons. They are however subject to the Florida Code of Judicial Conduct. Judge Strickland violated at lease two of the code’s canons. As I noted in another comment, Casey Anthony’s acquittal saved Judge Perry from a different sort of sanction–being overturned on appeal for multiple errors of law and due process.
State attorney offices however can be sued. Individual prosecutors can also be sued; the Department of Corrections can be sued. Libel and slander by television networks, individual media “personalities” and commentators are also causes for a suit of redress.
You write that I think “they all had a personal vendetta against Casey.” You are partially right on that account. I can’t say that Jeff Ashton, Linda Drane Burdick, detectives in the OCSO, members of the local media, and Headline News had vendettas. I do know though that they certainly acted as though they did. And they still do. It’s the most bizarre phenomenon in my lifetime which is the only reason it interests me at all.
I did not know Caylee Anthony. I doubt you knew her either. But we both should be concerned about justice. It’s our duty actually wouldn’t you say? Justice is the combination of doing what is ethical (following the law) and doing what is rational. I read and hear about people’s compassion for what they assume was the suffering of little girl. All of that certainly has a place–church maybe or around the dinner table or water cooler. That isn’t justice however and the judiciary is intentionally and expressly established in order to not deal with accusations of wrong doing based on emotions like empathy or sympathy.
If you are for justice you should be for holding the OCSO, the SAO, and the biased actions of Judge Strickland accountable.
Ron P.
You are entitled to your opinion, as am I ,which is why I respectfully disagree.
Richard, thank you. You have been such a big help to me over at the WS site and I truly LOVE reading here, even though I don’t post much. I’m sooo glad that you are in Fla. and NOT Kentucky!! The thought of you defending my brother’s murderer would break my heart!! Only because, I think you could pull off an acquittal. Thank you again for helping me to understand our Judicial system better , and thanks for not charging! 😉
Your friend! Tulessa.